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 Post subject: i need some SP-404SX compression advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:37 am 
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I was wondering if anyone had any advice on compressing entire tracks with the SP-404 or 404SX MSX12 (COMP).

Pretty much im having some trouble evening out some of the levels with compression. Certain tracks are easy enough to get an even sound but others seem like the snare will randomly pop out at a huge volume and then get quiet.

Im curious about how you guys go about compressing audio with MSX12

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 Post subject: Re: i need some SP-404SX compression advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:22 am 
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That seems to be my luck with using compression too. Some songs are just better for it. To really get it perfect you need to apply compression to individual parts instead of entire songs. I will only apply compression to a final mix as a last resort to bump it up.


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 Post subject: Re: i need some SP-404SX compression advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:07 am 
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^^^

Thanks for the reply

one thing that sort of bothers me about using MSX12 for individual samples especially kick drums is that it sort of makes it "pop" too much.

One thing ive found that sort of helps is after using distortion the levels seem to even out easier when compressed.

Also ive been attempting to resample the track and manually turned down the volume at the points where the snare comes in too loud.

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 Post subject: Re: i need some SP-404SX compression advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:03 am 
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How the compressor acts depends on what sounds it's being applied to and their relative volume to each other. If the compressor is flattening your kick out, just remove it from the kick only an leave it on your other samples. Try some shit like that man. You'll get it

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 Post subject: Re: i need some SP-404SX compression advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:23 am 
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Applying mfx 12 to a whole track is how you get that "sidechain" compression type sound that everyones been talking about so much lately-if you record your samples in signifigantly lower than the drums. But yea- when the drums drop out, the samples will get much louder,and vice versa. I find that if you apply mfx 12 to a whole track, that using the "default" setting-just where it's at when you apply the effect without adjusting any of the knobs- is a good way to go. That's what I did on my latest battle beat, if you wanna hear an example. That shit can be mad harsh though..like whats already been said, it's really good for individual hits-espescially kicks--but when using it to resample kicks,make sure to hit it a couple times-for some reason the first time you hit it has a flatter sound. And I actually almost always sample my musical parts in with the mfx 12 on-attack at 11:50-55, the other knob at about 12 o' clock. & For the most part I usually apply a slight ammount of vinyl sim compression to the whole track.Hope you get things where you want them,I'm sure you'll come across your own tricks and techniqes in the process--a big part of the fun in using sp's...peace.


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 Post subject: Re: i need some SP-404SX compression advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:34 am 
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use eq and compression, 404 is pretty gnarly eq i use it on lots of vocals makes crap mics sound good, and its good if you like a wet old snare once in a while

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 Post subject: Re: i need some SP-404SX compression advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:14 am 
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Yo crunk-serious question...when eq'ing vocals on the 404, or anything else, I guess- whats the most imortant adjustments? Like what frequency should be the most prominent,etc...if you could maybe do a quick rundown of how you normally do it on the 404, that would be a huge help to me.I'm recording my own vocals for the first time and have no idea what I'm doing on the eq side of things. thanks...


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 Post subject: Re: i need some SP-404SX compression advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:03 am 
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I've been doing this for years to get a quality that rivals mbox and a decent condenser mic . I think the 303 sounds better but whatever. It really depends on the voice, with my voice i need the turn the highs down quite a bit, mids down just a hair and the lows up a couple hairs. I think what makes it sound good is it saturates the frequencies kind of like a tape, even more when the limiter is turned on but this really dulls the sound, so I never use the limiter for vocals. when recording other people i just go by ear, its probably a good idea not to go over a 1/4 of a turn on any of the frequencies. it works sort of like a mic modeler, the trick is to get a good sounding recording to reduce the amount of processing after. you might want to watch the highs, it really juices them up, and it might sound ok while your mic checking but unless you're recording in a super high sample rate it wont be able to pick up the s's clean and they will be crushed to 16 bit 44100 and sound bad. so keep the highs cool. the lows and mids are just preference i think, because over doing them is immediately obvious. after the vocals track is recorded in I usually de ess just bring down the s's , add some vocal compression and then a tiny touch of reverb to warm it up. eq is the way to go forshure if your using your sampler as a mic pre amp. but the vinyl sim and chorus can sound decent as well, or even no fx at all if you wanna tweak the levels after on your daw. but having a pre processed signal sounds more real and if you like to hear yourself in headphones while you spit it lets you hear yourself how youll actually sound on the mix..
:mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: i need some SP-404SX compression advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:07 pm 
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honestly, i wouldn't recommend using the compression in the sp-404 on a whole mix...unless that's the sound you're after. The compression on it is more like a sound effect and less like the dynamics processor that you seem to be after.

to get a better, more professional compressed sound, check out a cheap hardware compressor like a dbx (should only be 50 or so...less if you bargain) or a vst. being able to control compression ration, attack release, threshold, is way important...and this can double as a limiter too for extra loudness during your mixes.

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 Post subject: Re: i need some SP-404SX compression advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:16 pm 
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Thanks crunk man, I appreciate you taking all that time,should help quite a bit. Lodger too,thanks.My boss(br 900-cd) recorder actually has a built in preset for vocal recording with a little compression, eq, and d-esser & delay- and I have the audio technica 4040 mic-pretty high quality condensor.But it still doesn't sound right for me till I run it through the sp for some extra compression and delay..I'm good with all that stuff,just don't know the slightest thing about eq when it comes to vocals. but now I do...thanks again.1


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 Post subject: Re: i need some SP-404SX compression advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:39 pm 
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The mfx 12 compressor causes probs when you have a beat that is open (not a lot of sounds playing simultaneously) or if you have sections where parts drop out, and really bad if you have a cut out where it goes silent then comes back...the attack is super sharp...I heard the vinyl sim comp is either not there or diff on the SX, but that is the compressor that works wonders for glueing a whole mix together imo

yo a.D. I have a BR 900 I use for when I'm recording vox when I'm on the road and I gotta say just play with the compression settings and all the other stuff in the vocal patches...the presets are meh but you can get a really great sound on that machine.

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 Post subject: Re: i need some SP-404SX compression advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:14 pm 
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@Sinapse- Man, I'm really glad you've mentioned this, 'cause I haven't been able to figure out how to adjust the individual patches besides just the presets-which is the only reason I've been running vox back through the sp...Haven't even been able to get the delay to work at all,at least not at a noticeable level.If you got time to run down how this works for me I'd be forever in your debt,lol..for real it would be a big deal, the manual is crazy frusrating and overly-complicated.I love the machine though, I was able to cop it for 2 bills, and it's really incredible imo.Thanks... :D


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 Post subject: Re: i need some SP-404SX compression advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:11 pm 
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a.D. wrote:
@Sinapse- Man, I'm really glad you've mentioned this, 'cause I haven't been able to figure out how to adjust the individual patches besides just the presets-which is the only reason I've been running vox back through the sp...Haven't even been able to get the delay to work at all,at least not at a noticeable level.If you got time to run down how this works for me I'd be forever in your debt,lol..for real it would be a big deal, the manual is crazy frusrating and overly-complicated.I love the machine though, I was able to cop it for 2 bills, and it's really incredible imo.Thanks... :D


no prob, I use it when I'm posted somewhere for a wkd or w/e but I used to use it at my main recorder so I know that jawn in and out...the COSM patches are confusing for sure, there is a delay on the COSM efx patches for vox but it's turned OFF on the default settings - personally I like to use the "loop effects" setting to get my rev/delay on the vox coming in. when you press the loop efx button you can toggle thru tracks, but when you go all the way to the left past track 1 there is an "in" setting which effects the recorded sound...I'll send you a PM later on tonight with a more complete breakdown. there is a lot more to it, I can give you some decent ranges I found for compression/limiting and all the other ish in those patches. if you haven't heard from me in like a day or so just send me a PM, I may forget since I can't do it at the mo

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 Post subject: Re: i need some SP-404SX compression advice
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:28 pm 
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Thank you man- I pretty much know how to work the loop efx part-on everything else I'm lost.it would be more than appreciated if you could take the time to do that.Peace!


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 Post subject: Re: i need some SP-404SX compression advice
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:27 am 
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thanks for all of the tips and advice guys :D

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