New to the board. I'm looking to add some light ambient sounds and field recordings (conversations I hear on the bus, etc) to my band. It's just guitar and me on bass and controlling a drum machine (alesis sr16). I've never owned or used a sampler/sequencer before, and I just need something very simple to do the above. Also, I'll need to be able to use it live, so I'll need it to be footswitch/midi footswitch-able, but basically I just need it for a stop/start function, as I plan on replacing the sr 16 with the sampler loaded with sounds. So I'm pretty lost other than hearing good things about the sp-303 and 404. But I don't even know if these machines can do what I want. I understand the Behringer 1010 can't send a stop/start signal, is that correct? I'm cross-posting this on the 404 forum as well, I hope that's not frowned upon. Thanks for any help you guys can give me, and maybe this doesn't make sense, so just ask me for clarification, I'll do my best!

hello drewwardlaw, welcome to the forum!

if you already got a sr 16, you don't have to struggle with that shitty behringer-midi thing! i recently tested my sp 404sx with the sr 16 as sequencer and it worked pretty well. i wanted to control my samples by feet, cause i also need my hands for the bass…

so, basically you program your patterns on the sr 16 and send them via midi to the sampler. on the sr 16 you have an input for start/stop on the backside. just plug in a simple footswitch like this and there you go.
it's also possible to switch between two patterns, with an additional footswitch.

the most difficult part would be to assign the right midi-notes to your samples. but in the manual should be a chart of all the samplebanks/notes.

and for ambient stuff i think the sp 404sx is king, cause you can use really long samples. your sd card is the limit… so, just go for it!

Great bass.bert, thanks for the reply. I didn't even think to use the alesis in conjuction with the sampler, but that makes perfect sense! It also takes care of another question I had about the 303/404, which was it's ability to make full songs, but since I'll be using a drum machine with it, that shouldn't be a problem, right?

also bass.bert, live, do you have a live drummer or use the sr-16/404sx as the rhythm?

hey drewwardlaw,
this whole sampler-thing is just a side project, and still under developement.
so i just work on it step by step when i have the time. that means i'm still busy with all the parts of the puzzle, but never was able to get them together…
though my plan is to combine the sequences (mainly chords and melodies) with a live drummer who can play to a metronome. i would try to send out a self-build click track from the sr 16 through one of the aux channels for him…

and yes there is a song mode in the sr 16 to arrange your patterns.

yeah thanks for the help bert. i'm even newer to this stuff than you are, and i want to be absolutely sure of what i want before i drop money on something. but i think a 404 matched with an alesis sr-16 will make for a pretty interested 1/2 of a rhythm section (me on bass being the other).

i dont know if its true for all sr 16's but unless i midi mine to my 404 the bpm always falls out of sync even though the numbers are matched up. it goes faster than my 404

Hi
Without having midi clock sync, 404 patterns will drift apart from the SR-16. The reference clocks in any digital device are intended to be reasonably constant but are rarely precise - they will probably be derived by counting down from a much faster CPU clock and only be approximate. So one machines 120BPM might actually be 120.1BPM if you were to measure it accurately in a lab, and a different machine might test at 119.9BPM.

If the 404 is being used as sampler that's played by the SR-16, then of course sync isn't needed at all.

There may be a way to get a bit of both, some of the sounds from the SR-16 and some from the 404 - you might have to send the particular SR-16 sound to the alternate output and not use it (I'm not sure if it has a "no sound" or mute setting for the sounds in kits), then you only have the 404 sample on the same midi note sounding. For the SR-16 sounds you want, the 404 pads on those note numbers would be empty or muted.
Of course, you can have both sounding, say to get a "big bottom" on an SR16 kick with a sub-bass sample on the 404 with both sounds triggered on the same midi note.

I think it would be worth sticking with the SR-16 Hats because they have exclusive trigger - that is a closed hat instantly mutes a currently sounding open hat. The 404 won't do that.

Jim

Thanks Jim,
So let me see if I understand things correctly....

I can sync the SR-16 and the 404 via midi clock sync, so they will play in time with one another.

Then I can use the SR-16 as my main rhythm machine (and sequencer?), and use the 404 to play samples, which is what it is supposed to do!

So now that the machines are synced via midi clock message, I can program the 404 to start a pattern when I start a drum pattern on the SR-16 with my footswitch, is that correct? For example, if there is a pattern in bank A, pad 1, I can program that pad to play when I play a pattern/song from the SR-16, right?

Geez, thanks a lot guys for answering all my questions, I'm pretty green when it comes to this stuff and you guys have been a big help.

Glad you're finding the info useful.

You're correct about the 404 pattern following in sync via midi clock.
But the 404 pattern sequencing is limited compared to the SR-16, so you can just use the 404 in sample mode and replace certain or all of the SR-16 sounds.
That is, they are connected by midi but midi clock isn't used. The pads on the SR16 trigger samples on the 404 instead. The SR-16 pads can be programmed to any midi note to match a 404 pad and a pattern containing hits on that pad are sent over midi to play the corresponding 404 pad. The SR16 has the advantage of velocity sensitivity too, which the 404 only responds to when played via midi - it's own pads play and record a fixed velocity value.

However if you do use the 404 patterns, midi clock will keep both in time with the SR-16 tempo and the 404 will start and stop when the SR16 does. But as the 404 doesn't have a song mode, it will stay on the currently selected pattern until you change it.

I wonder exactly how you envisage using the 404 - do you plan to put instrument samples on it?

Jim

Yeah, this is a huge help. None of the music shops around here have a 404 and the no one at the GC here is helpful at all, they work in the synth department but it seems like I know more about this stuff than they do, and I'm totally clueless!

I plan on using the 404 to play like sound clips of conversations I hear on the bus, loops of cars driving by and things like that, and then light synth melodies created with either Logic or the guitarist's Korg Kaossilator, maybe sample a theremin or something. The goal is to make our sound more ambient with the 404, but retain solid rhythms with the SR-16.

One more question..... can I change patterns on the 404 with the SR-16? Or maybe a better question, can I program the SR-16 to trigger a different pad on the 404 with a different song? Meaning, let's say song 1 on the SR-16 triggers pad A on the 404. Can I change the song on the SR-16 to song 2, and press play, and have it trigger B, for instance?

Sorry if I didn't make it clear but...
You can't select a 404 pattern over midi - only by pressing it's pad - If a pattern is already playing, it will only change when it reaches it's end. So you do have to use your hands, although you do have a chance to do it before the change has to happen.

In fact I'm beginning to doubt if the proposed setup can do what you want.

The SR16 sequencer has 12 monophonic tracks. Each track plays just one midi note. You can change that note, but it's global - it can't be different for different songs or patterns. So even if you restrict the SR16 to 8 of it's drum sounds, you only have 4 left for the 404 samples and unless you change the pads midi notes between songs - they would have to be the same 4 samples for every song!.

I think you need a better sequencer than the SR16.

One thing I can think of that will do the job of both sequencer and sampler is a Korg Electribe SX1, It has drum machine tracks like the SR16, that is they can only be set for one note, but a few of it's tracks are intended to trigger loops or play melodies - and the samples can be different for each song/pattern (yes the Electribe has a Song mode). If you've got all your songs already in the SR16, you could still keep that and sync an Electribe from it.

Time to consider options!

Jim

ah nuts.... that's a bit disconcerting. it seems like just when i think i've found something that will work, it ends up not being the right thing. maybe my needs are a bit too specific for just one or two pieces of equipment..... i'll check out the Korg stuff. i've posted a few times on the Korg forum, and people seem to like that stuff.

alright.... i've got a couple more questions to ask

changing the pad's midi notes between songs is a bit time consuming i imagine, right? i guess you would have to send program change messages from the SR-16 to the 404 or something? i have no idea how this is done....

would it be possible (albeit a cheaters way out) to record an entire drum track from the SR-16 as a sample on a single pad the 404, then add various other sounds/effects to that pad, and fake the song mode by essentially playing an entire song as a one-shot sample? does that makes sense? maybe i'm not made for electronic music?

that sounds like it makes sense to me my man, thats how you gotta work with the sp, its all about thinkin outside the box to achieve what you're trying to achieve