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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on a MC909 as a sequencer/sampler
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:46 pm 
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You pretty much need a computer if you join Roland’s Zen subscription thingamajingy if you’re wanting to dl certain synths/drum machines (the more obscure ones that AREN’T 606/707/808/909), and any other sound pack you want to put on your simm card for the MC 101/707/MV Verselab.

So really depends if you’re wanting a Jupiter 8 sound through a SH101 filter, or whatever. Not saying it’s necessary for music making, but editing some parameters, probably. This is Roland. They’ll find a way to get you to join the club, and milk you if you need some classic synths.

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on a MC909 as a sequencer/sampler
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 8:59 pm 
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personally i just need an editor, i want to tweak some parameters of the 101 (LFOs for sure, maybe ADSR's filter and pitch and also some fake fm algoryhtms) in order to create some patches, i don't think to look for some Roland synth or drum machines; if i have to pay just for that, that's not sounding good to me...

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on a MC909 as a sequencer/sampler
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 12:22 pm 
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@Headphones
Those other synths are just 'add-ons' for the main Zenology PRO (in case you want the modeled sound of those synths). All they do is add simulated modeling and presets of those synths. The main Zenology PRO software is way more powerful than any of those synths, it's basically an exact copy of the full ZEN-Core hardware engine fitted to the MC-101 and MC-707.

@ellaguru
To be fair, since you want to be able to perform live and you want full editing features, I think you would have been far better off buying a Roland JD-Xi. That's a very powerful synth, in fact it has three types of synths on board:

- 1x REAL-Analogue monosynth
- 2x PCM-based melodic synths
- 1x PCM-based drum synth

All all of those synths are fully editable directly on the JD-Xi, no computer needed. It means you also get more knobs to play with, a really nice multi-timbral (and polyphonic) step-sequencer, which after the update, even follows your chord changes!

Check this out and drool at how well it's designed, I know I did:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j7N5rVXBmg

Notice how it follows his chord changes (multi-timbrally and polyphonically too?) :D

I'm in two minds of buying one myself to feed my SP-808, it would be a great combo. And of course, like I said, you can edit the synths fully on the JD-Xi. Even the Drum Engine is made-up of four partials per drum!

Here's the Synth Parameter Guide for it:
https://www.roland.com/global/support/b ... c1ba05d9c/

There are other manuals for it as well, like the main manual and the update features manual, but that's the one that should interest you regards synthesis parameters. Personally it looks as if I'll be going for either the Waldorf Blofeld (Black version with Keyboard), or the Roland JD-Xi mentioned here, cause I need something to feed my SP-808. I've not decided which yet, but it looks as if it's going to be one of those two.


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on a MC909 as a sequencer/sampler
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 3:15 pm 
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PS: If anyone goes looking for reviews after reading the above, just be weary (yet again) about what the "Bad Gear" guy said about it. I almost fell of my chair in disbelief when he said the sequencer isn't up to much.

Either he's not aware of the update that made it one of the best, most interactive sequencers around, or he simply doesn't know the feature exists, in fact here's a quote from the comments of the Bad Gear video ...

URF Wrote:
"Not gonna lie, after buying a JD-Xi a couple years back, a lot of my gear got put away, and the JD became the workhorse of the studio. Whole albums performed and recorded in their entirety using this beast! Lol"


Bear in mind that the most popular tutorials out there were made before it was updated to have those features, and in case anyone is puzzled by it, yu might have noticed that some f them have a glossy finish and some are mat. The glossy finish is the default, but Roland later released some matt-finish with white text overlays that you can lay over the glossy panel if you wish.

Personally I prefer the default 'Glossy with Red' look on this synth and would keep it that way if I got one, and to be honest I think I am going to go for the JD-Xi. I was just listening to a patch pack on YouTube and the Flute and Strings samples I heard are absolutely gorgeous!


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on a MC909 as a sequencer/sampler
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 4:48 pm 
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SP-USER wrote:
@ellaguru
To be fair, since you want to be able to perform live and you want full editing features, I think you would have been far better off buying a Roland JD-Xi. That's a very powerful synth, in fact it has three types of synths on board:

- 1x REAL-Analogue monosynth
- 2x PCM-based melodic synths
- 1x PCM-based drum synth

All all of those synths are fully editable directly on the JD-Xi, no computer needed. It means you also get more knobs to play with, a really nice multi-timbral (and polyphonic) step-sequencer, which after the update, even follows your chord changes!

Check this out and drool at how well it's designed, I know I did:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j7N5rVXBmg

Notice how it follows his chord changes (multi-timbrally and polyphonically too?) :D

I'm in two minds of buying one myself to feed my SP-808, it would be a great combo. And of course, like I said, you can edit the synths fully on the JD-Xi. Even the Drum Engine is made-up of four partials per drum!

Here's the Synth Parameter Guide for it:
https://www.roland.com/global/support/b ... c1ba05d9c/

There are other manuals for it as well, like the main manual and the update features manual, but that's the one that should interest you regards synthesis parameters. Personally it looks as if I'll be going for either the Waldorf Blofeld (Black version with Keyboard), or the Roland JD-Xi mentioned here, cause I need something to feed my SP-808. I've not decided which yet, but it looks as if it's going to be one of those two.


man thanks for the advice, but as i said before i would like to use the mc101 as a portable mc909 and that would not necessarely means that i will use it for live:) ; i'll see.
btw I remember the jd, i tried once in a shop some years before and i didn't liked the sound that much as it was; plus, now i have some volcas (fm and modular), a sonicware xfm, the mc101, and the microfreak and i think that my portable band sort of is almost complete (i have also some sps , the st224 etc the po33, the patchblocks minijams etc); i just want to see how this zenology stuff works: i saw some videos and from what i understand a mc101/707 user cannot use (for now) all the synths inside this software but only the ones with .svz format...but no prob, personally i would like to just create some patches from 0 that's what i want, as i saw this zenology share a creating process very similar to the one the mc909 has;) ;
ps
in any case i also have a Juno106, a V-synth and a jv1080 so i have enough roland engines:)

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on a MC909 as a sequencer/sampler
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 9:58 pm 
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ellaguru wrote:
... i just want to see how this zenology stuff works: i saw some videos and from what i understand a mc101/707 user cannot use (for now) all the synths inside this software but only the ones with .svz format...but no prob, personally i would like to just create some patches from 0 that's what i want ...

Think of it like this:

- ZEN-Core is Roland's new hybrid PCM and Analogue Modeling engine.
- The ZEN-Core engine is used in the "MC-101" and "MC-707" hardware.
- The ZEN-Core engine is also used in the "Zenology PRO" VST instrument.
- The Zenology PRO VST instrument is also an editor for the MC-101 and MC-707
- The Zenology PRO VST instrument is available to buy without a subscription.

That's it, there's nothing more to it than that. Personally I completely ignore those other synth models, they are no use because the default ZEN-Core synth engine is already far more capable than any of those synths were. Remember, ZEN-Core is Roland's latest state-of-the-art synth engine, and that means the PCM and Analogue Modeling aspect of it are years ahead.

The reason I point out Zenology PRO to you is because as listed above, it is also an editor for ZEN-Core hardware (and the MC-101 is ZEN-Core hardware). Thos means that you can choose any four synthesis parameters from the editor, save it as a preset to the SD card, and those synthesis parameters will be available on your MC-101 in stand-alone mode. Like I said, you can choose any four parameters you wish.

ellaguru wrote:
btw I remember the jd, i tried once in a shop some years before and i didn't liked the sound that much as it was

Apparently the presets are crap, but it's not a true reflection of its abilities. I've heard some very nice patches from it but nevertheless I just downloaded the waveform list for it and was shocked to see an outragously limited 160 waveforms.

No thanks, Roland, that's absolutely ridiculous, I was expecting over a 1,000.

Looks like I'm going for the Waldorf Blofeld then (The Black version with Full-Sized Keys). Not gonna lie though, I still am really missing that OPSIX and often wish I had not returned it. It was already an incredibly kick-arse synth when I had it, but that 2.0 update makes it even more impressive and I no longer need to look for a Touch-Wah.

I even saw Luke, KORG's demonstrator bloke showing-off an acoustic piano done in FM, and man, that alone is burning me up inside cause I've always wanted to see FM improvements that would bring it to that level. It must be incredibly enjoyable to take something like that and tweak away at it knowing it's actuially FM and not acoustic.

An Acoustic Piano done in FM (or at least a very good starting point for one):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUUGGUTydgA

So now I have to choose between the Blofeld and OPSIX (and it's fuckin' hard to do). Anyway, I feel like I hijacked another thread, sorry 'bout that, I do ramble a lot when excited. On the plus side, once I decide on a Blofeld or OPSIX, I'm finally sorted for gear. I'll just pair it up with my SP-808 and that's it, I don't need anything else.


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on a MC909 as a sequencer/sampler
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 10:04 am 
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SP-USER wrote:
- ZEN-Core is Roland's new hybrid PCM and Analogue Modeling engine.
- The ZEN-Core engine is used in the "MC-101" and "MC-707" hardware.
- The ZEN-Core engine is also used in the "Zenology PRO" VST instrument.
- The Zenology PRO VST instrument is also an editor for the MC-101 and MC-707
- The Zenology PRO VST instrument is available to buy without a subscription.

That's it, there's nothing more to it than that. Personally I completely ignore those other synth models, they are no use because the default ZEN-Core synth engine is already far more capable than any of those synths were. Remember, ZEN-Core is Roland's latest state-of-the-art synth engine, and that means the PCM and Analogue Modeling aspect of it are years ahead.

The reason I point out Zenology PRO to you is because as listed above, it is also an editor for ZEN-Core hardware (and the MC-101 is ZEN-Core hardware). Thos means that you can choose any four synthesis parameters from the editor, save it as a preset to the SD card, and those synthesis parameters will be available on your MC-101 in stand-alone mode. Like I said, you can choose any four parameters you wish.

i tried the zenology stuff not legaly yesterday, without subcription, beacause i still don't understand what they really want: i mean , i discover that the mc101 can only use the zencore files and not all the (maaaany) other; Roland don't say nothing about it when you buy or subscibe (or what the hell)....not a good point....other than this inconvenient, the zeonology has 95% the same editing approach the mc909/jv/xv synths have, that's a good point for me (even if i have to use a pc, but whatever)...
anyway it sounds wonderful on pc but when i transfer on mc101 via card it sounds at a very low volume compared to the original...who knows...

for the zenology pro as mc707/101 editor: i would have preferred that Roland has done a dedicated editor for those two grooveboxes

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on a MC909 as a sequencer/sampler
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:49 pm 
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I don't understand what's confusing you or what's happening. It's surely a benefit to be able to have the full engine available on the editor otherwise you would need to keep it connected to your MC-101 while using it as an editor. Zenology PRO is the full sound engine for your computer, and the benefit is that it doesn't need to be connected to your hardware as you edit, because all of the waveform data, effects and synthesis parameters are replicated in the software.

I haven't a clue why you keep mentioning subscriptions. You can buy a permanent, perpetual licence, so that means no subscription needed.

BTW, when I said you can choose any four synthesis parameters, I meant it in such a way that you have four physical controller knobs on the MC-101 and you can assign any four parameters from the engine to them using macros. You can do even more than that if you're clever about it, because you can set it up in Zenology PRO so that each of those four macros control more than one synthesis parameter, and because you can define the area and range of the knob that effects each individual parameter, that means you can assign more than one synthesis parameter to a knob and still control it as if you had it assigned as a single parameter to a single macro.

There is nothing that belongs the default ZEN-Core that does not work on the MC-101 or MC-707, they are identical to the software. This is another reason why you need to stay away from those extra synth add-ons because those extras aren't part of the hardware spec (unless Roland decides to update them and make it so). Just think of the bare-bones Zenology PRO as a clone of what is in the MC-101 and MC-707 and keep it that way, stay away from adding any add-on synths to it and it should work fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on a MC909 as a sequencer/sampler
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:44 pm 
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At a point, this guy explains well what i meant

https://youtu.be/ah1fHKmwPuA

Ps
I didn't understand what you mean with addons, i didn't saw any addons there....

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on a MC909 as a sequencer/sampler
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:46 am 
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Bruh, in that video, watch it from 8:04. Like I said, "Roland Cloud" is basically just a brand name they're putting all of their software under. As he points out right at the beginning, Roland Cloud is basically just a licence manager - that's all it is.

You'll notice that from 8:04 in the video he starts talking about "Zenology PRO", and it is important to note that they call it the "Advanced Software Synthesizer" for a reason. That's because Zenology PRO is Roland's latest synth engine, it's exactly the same engine used on the MC-101 and MC-707. Zenology PRO is the VSTi version OF that engine!

Notice that he says you can buy a "Lifetime Key" (that means permanent), and you can do this directly inside the Roland Cloud Manager? This is why you need to open a free account, so that Roland know who bought a key. What you also need to notice is those extra synths he mentions, those are the "add-on" synths I was talking about, and you need to stay away from those because they are NOT part of the default ZEN-Core spec that is used in the default Zenology PRO.

All you need is Zenology PRO and nothing else.

The MC-101 and MC-707 use the default ZEN-Core as used in the Zenology PRO VSTi, they do NOT use those extra synth models. He even tells you in the video a little further on that you need to understand that the MC-101 does NOT support "Model Expansion" - and that's what I'm talking about here, those "Model Expansions" are the add-on synths you need to avoid.

JUST STAY AWAY FROM EXTRA SYNTH MODEL EXPANSIONS :mrgreen:

... so ALSO take notice of what he starts discussing at 11:45


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on a MC909 as a sequencer/sampler
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:45 pm 
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SP-USER wrote:
What you also need to notice is those extra synths he mentions, those are the "add-on" synths I was talking about, and you need to stay away from those because they are NOT part of the default ZEN-Core spec that is used in the default Zenology PRO.

All you need is Zenology PRO and nothing else.

The MC-101 and MC-707 use the default ZEN-Core as used in the Zenology PRO VSTi, they do NOT use those extra synth models. He even tells you in the video a little further on that you need to understand that the MC-101 does NOT support "Model Expansion" - and that's what I'm talking about here, those "Model Expansions" are the add-on synths you need to avoid.


ok now it's clear that we were talking about thalmost the same stuff:) you cannot use the addons (the extra synth model, the not-zen-core-ones etc) on the mc101...and it's a pity, they're interesting, but ok

i'll see better what starts at 11:45
ps
i still don't understand why the patches i made then on the mc101 don't sound at the same volume of what i hear on the zenology soft... i tried other patches but it's the same...

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on a MC909 as a sequencer/sampler
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 12:54 pm 
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If you look in the comments section for that video, someone said there's a bug in the latest firmware that sometimes makes the patches sound different, so I reckon that's the issue you're having.

Roland need to fix it and pronto, especially as they're asking for money from users in order to edit a hardware synth that should be stand-alone editable in the first place!


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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on a MC909 as a sequencer/sampler
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:28 am 
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SP-USER wrote:
If you look in the comments section for that video, someone said there's a bug in the latest firmware that sometimes makes the patches sound different, so I reckon that's the issue you're having.

ah ok, i see that;)

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on a MC909 as a sequencer/sampler
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:11 pm 
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Still waiting on my money. The good news is the cheapest and hopefully not broken MC909 is still on the GuitarCenter website. But that doesn’t do me much good if I don’t get my cash fairly soon.

I’ve thought about a Akai MPC One just a little bit, but just can’t go there.

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 Post subject: Re: Opinions on a MC909 as a sequencer/sampler
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:06 pm 
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Aye, you can always rely on the Tax Man to be super-efficient at extracting cash from the public, while being super-inefficeint at returning what doesn't belong to them (and actually never did in the first place). Of course if the system was designed right, and a fair one, you wouldn't be in the position of needing it to be returned to you.

I remember going through that decades back. I had my heart set on beautiful, (second-hand but completely mint) Rover SD1 Vitesse in red and missed it due to something like that. It was my dream car as a teenager growing up in the 80s, and I remember putting my hands on the wheel, grinning to myself ear-to-ear and actually saying out loud ...

"Yesssssssss, couple more days and you'll be all mine!!!"


Yeah right :roll:

The emotion was a bit like (actually a lot like) the movie "Christine" I suppose!

Anyway, I'm babbling again and I hope you get your cash in time bro!


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