Hi all,

I'm looking for a sound source to sample into my sp-555. My criteria are as follows.

The phatter and more aggressive the better. must work as monosynth with fixed time glide to get 303 style action.
Expressive real time controls in terms of switching patterns on the fly, muting/unmuting parts realtime, stuttering playback.
not bothered about effects. sp555 has it covered
Not too bothered about the drums. I will probably sample them into the SP and mangle them. The ability to change midi transmission note numbers would be handy so I can trigger the SP pads from the groovebox midiout would be good.
Where I do have a preference for drums I prefer 808. You don't get authentic 808 drums from romplers. I might get an mfb 512 one day to get my analogue fix

Here is what I am considering
yamaha an-200 / dx-200
These look awesome but are pretty rare. I love the sound of the analogue style step sequencer. You can set vel/gate/pitch independantly for each of upto 16 steps in a sequence. You can set it going and use some awesome live sequncer controls. You can live transpose the pitch, kick in half time / double time speed, stutter on a particular 16th / 8th or 1/4 note (plus the drums continue to play normally whilst the synth becomes syncopated! sounds cool). All of this while up to 8 bars of 4 tracks of knob modulations are playing out. It really does sound fun to play however there are bad things. I hear there is a bug whereby the CPU will croak and miss the first note of a new pattern when switching and using some of the more CPU intensive (think unison oscs) patches. This isn't as much of a problem for feeding a sampler. I also here the data knob/wheel is poorly engineered and fails or skips sooner or later. Not good news for something i will be needing to buy without testing first. The last con is the 16step limit. Would have preferred 2 or even 4 bars. Can anybody recommend these synths?

Korg EM1
This seems less expressive in terms of sequencer interaction and sound. It only has 50 waves but I think that would be plenty when I start laying effects on the SP. On the plus side I get 2 synth to layer for phatness. The motion sequencing sounds cool. I used to own an ER1 so know all about it. The ability to write longer patterns is a huge draw. In fact I would settle on this straight away if it wasn't for the fact that the AN200/DX200 sequencer sounds so much fun to play!

Roland SH32
Don't know as much about this but it sounds close to what I need. It doesn't have a sequencer, but does have programmable arp patterns that let you mess with velocity and gates for steps. Can anybody say what can be accomplished with this? Apparently it has usable 808 and 909 samples.

What have I missed?
Korg EA1 doesn't have glide afaik
novation stuff (i used to own a nova) doesn't seem to have a sequencer. A k-station would be ideal if it had a programmable step sequencer.

If anyones interested how I arrived at these specific requirements well... you might be surprised to learn that my favourite soft synth is (still) rubber duck by d-lusion. So I am looking for something cabable of the same sort of 303 type riffs. I wrote a macro to convert a midi file into x number of rubber duck patterns to more easily program say 4 and 8 bar patterns. I have also done the same thing with David Billens Sim Synth 2. Get some cool results. My problem is I'm more of a player than a programmer. I prefer to be hands on experimenting.

Anyways thanks in advance for any input from anyone that might have used any of the above machines, or otherwise. I've been trapped musically for too many years. I am not giving up until I find the perfect tools!!

Best,
Mike

Sounds much like you should look at the Future Retro Revolution - kinda 303-clone with sequencer and distortion.
Another one is the 777, they don't make it anymore but if you can get hold of it, it's the bomb:
Future Retro 777
and check their official demos on their website:
http://www.future-retro.com/777overview.html <-- the player at the top has some really classic acid tracks, highly recommended

Then, Korg MS2000 - a bit old but sounds good and has a 16-step sequencer.
I'll add more as they come to mind.

That said, most proper (virtual) analog or even many sample-based synths will do for your task, as they ALL do monophonic glide. Fixed-time glide is rare though and mostly limited to 303 clones, and most don't have a sequencer. It would come down to workflow and sound character, I guess. If you want long-term sonic outrage and on the other hand standard synth sounds with ease too, might I recommend the Waldorf Microwave XT + the sequencer of your choice - wavetable flexibility and unheard sound, plus oustanding filters and extensive modulation capability, packaged in all-metal knob-heaven orange housing Or then, any other virtual analog synth.
Here's an example showing off the waveshaper filter on a simple patch:
http://www.box.net/shared/o0px02xdlp

By the way, I prefer 808 drums too, but since I tend to process them heavily anyways, samples are ok for me

hi
as lonestar said the ms2000 is very nice

i got an AN200, i don't really like all the sounds inside, but it's very tweakable. this is the cheap groovebox i like the best: its sequencer is very "groovable": swing,beat,gate,roll immedialtly in front of you, and, the most cool of all, the reverse of a pattern in real time (dind't found this function another groovebox/sequencer -neither on the yamaha rm1x)! it also got a morphing function (similar but more powerful than the electribes "motion sequence" function).
some acid/aggressive/metallic sounds are inside this machine anyway. big limit of it: it has only 1 measure ...
the DX200 is the same as the AN200, it only change in sounds (the dx200 got the dx's engine while the an200 got the anx1 synths fm sounds).

another yamaha grooveboxe is the rm1x, real good sequencer, but many say that it have no relly good sounds. i don't know well this machine to say this.

from roland, i can suggest you also the mc303, the mc505 and the mc307, some poor version of the tb303 (the first and the 3rd), but very cool indeed.
i got an mc09 too, wich was supposed to be a very poor tb303. i has good acid basses, but it has some limits (you cannot play bass/lead/drums simultaneoulsy, you have to sample them with the internal sampler), it is most of all a "prhase maker".
i got also the roland D2, the most awful groovebox ever made, but it got lot of sounds of the mc303, mc505,tb303, tr808, 909 etcetc...

the Emu grooveboxes are nice too, but i don't know if they got acid/aggressive sounds...

Hey mate, I've got the DX200 & it's ok... Got to admit I bought a very second hand one, some of the buttons hardly work & Yamaha isn't too helpful with getting back up to speed. My fault for not trying before buying.

While that's an irritation, what's most irritating is the one bar sequencer. Also, the DX200's sound drops out if you tweak it too hard, which is easy to do without the usual osc-filter-amp-lfo synthesizer setup. It really doesn't matter how much recording time it can do of your tweaks when its the same bar over & over & over again.

Getting decent sound out of it can be a trial but once you're there it is pretty damn good & the warping of the internal percussion & effect sounds are great to sample though. Honestly, I wouldn't bother with either though if you don't have a controller- you can't get more than a triad chord out of these with the sequencer. Be careful, these two are mixed bags...

The Korg EM1 is prob a better option for building synth lines. That's the blue one with valves, right? Got the ESX & it's a really different sampler to the Roland SPs so they complement each other spectacularly. It has glide at least. Plus both have pads that light up so they look good in the dark. Small things for small minds.

Also own the SH32... That thing's a beast! It's everything I wanted out of the DX200 except for the sequencing to be honest. It's really easy to make new sounds with & takes no time to learn seeing almost all your controls are one or two buttons/sliders/dials away. What will you achieve playing with its arpeggiator? All I can liken it is to when a mad scientist screams "Its alive! ALIVE!!! MWUHAHAHAHA!!!" then lightning flashes.
*ahem*
Even though the arpeggiator's no replacement for a sequencer it does rule. You're right, it does come with a host on TR drum sounds. Worth getting if you can find one. I plan on getting a sequencer like the Analog Solutions Europa to get the most out of mine, I suck at keys. Oh yeah, you can play it without a midi controller from its face but don't, you only get one octave at a time.

Oh yeah the Rm1x... best sequencer I've used so far. The sounds are weak and stale at best, some drums are usable, but it's still worth getting for the sequencer alone. Goes for around 200eur used.
I can't praise its sequencer enough: 16 tracks, all the standard bells&whistles with quantise, swing, pattern chaining/songs, realtime/step/TR-recording, and extra stuff you won't find elsewhere like saveable mute scenes, and realtime midi fx like velocity shift, pattern stretch (1/2 or 1/4 or double speed etc) or midi delay. All that at the push of a button or the flick of a knob.
If you ever consider buying one assure that the main pads aren't worn out though, they do so rather quickly. After some time you have to press them harder and harder to get a reaction.

Killer combo: Rm1x + some good VA synth + your SP-555!

Although it doesn't have a sequencer and no midi out, I think you still might want to check out Waldorf Blofeld. No sequencer, but a GREAT programmable arpeggiator and awesome sound. It's also very cheap and can be upgraded to hold and process samples.

Synthesizer engine is probably the deepest of those mentioned so far this thread, still it's also probably the easiest to program.

ellaguru,

Do you know if you can transpose the an200 sequencer using an external midi keyboard, perhaps by holding down the transpose button and playing the keyboard with you other hand?

Mike

damn, you say it man!
without this the dx/an200 are the probably the best tweakable/groovable machines around...

OT (sorry)
i try this tip anyway to solve this one bar shitty problem: for example if i have to record some pattern at 90bpm, i put the bpm at 45 and i start to record that way, so i got at least a (false) 2 bar pattern; only sad thing: with this tip and this bpm your roll is half sacrified (usable , but...)...PM me if you have tried or found othr tips for this 1 bar trouble, thanx!...

hehehe offtopic:

Only one bar patterns is bad enough... but let me introduce you to the almighty Casio RZ-1:

(no joke, Casio did make some professional gear in the 80s)



Pristine drum samples (famous hihats!), realtime recording, mixer, individual outputs, holds 4 samples in battery-buffered RAM, that special 8bit sound, all shiznits and sounds like this when circuit-bent:

http://www.box.net/shared/mzl0rhfmx9

Of course I couldn't resist and removed the sound ROMs and replaced the original oldschool samples by 808 ones:

http://www.box.net/shared/lpe90s7iqd

But then it only has one tiny little flaw:

NO PATTERN SWITCHING DURING PLAYBACK

It ruins the whole machine and renders it more or less useless for anything spontaneous, it's a shame!
That was it for tonight on LoneStar's Why Old Gear Mostly Sucks Show

the transpose button let you introduce some nice variations in notes but i've never tried to use it as you ask, don't know if it works indeed...
(i forget to say that , like the rm1x, the dx/an 200 too they can 1/2 or X2 the rythm on the fly and in the middle of a pattern playback...)


@Lonestar
the rz-1 rocks!

hmnn now I am thinking about an alesis micron. Seems to afford 4 bars of realtime pattern recording. I just need to check the manual and see if it lets you edit the gate times afterwards.