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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:27 pm 
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It looks like the recent downtime included some removal of the posts. Please repost. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:39 am 
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no worries man

USING ACID TO MAKE YOUR LOOPS STRETCH BETTER (the program, not the drug)

The 606 is probably the best sampler out there where loops are concerned. However, there are a couple of things that you can do, that will ensure you don't have any problems (artefacts) at all.

Follow this procedure to make your loops 'elastic'; just like Acid or Abelton...

Step 1 - Record a loop! Get out that vinyl and find yourself a nice groove.

Step 2 - Export to your computer.

Step 3 - Load the loop into Acid Pro, or any DAW that will use Acidized Loops.

Step 4 - Fiddle with the tempo until you get it just the way you like (or leave it if it's already cool). The sensibility behind this idea is to give you a greater scope for BPM change than you otherwise would have; The 606 can do about +/- 10BPM without any noticable artefacts - Acid can do maybe another 20 BPM (on top of the original 10); combined you have a scope of +/- 30BPM, which is enough for most loops.

Step 5 - Export the loop from Acid as a WAV.

Step 6 - Load the loop into P606. If the loop is Acidized properly it will lock to the tempo, just like in Acid. If the loop won't lock, load it into SoundForge and alter the Acidized properties and resave it.

Step 7 - Export to the SP-606 using the EXT SEQ SAMPLING function.

Step 8 - Make sure the sample is looped (Sample Param) and BPM Sync'ed (BPM Sync).

Done Deal! Stretchy Loops that will always stay in time when you are on stage!!


Happy Looping!


Last edited by 606man on Thu May 03, 2007 1:52 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:04 pm 
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Hi... I got a question is the program Acid worth getting ?? When I 1st got the unit I thought the p-606 would do it . Back then I didn't know & couldn't get the unit pluged in and working correctly . So I went out and got kinetic's 1&2 thinking they fix the problem. Since I couldn't get the p-606 configured correctly . Then I spent a whole weekend frustrated over my cpu and the p-606 and the 606 . Then at the last spare moment ( right before I was gonna mash it to hell ) the darn thing worked . I thought how and why it worked ...well my question is it worth $80 buck's ?? Is the software PROJECT 5 worth getting ??

tuanjamz2


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:32 pm 
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I'm always gonna use acid as my main sequencer becuase it's fuss-free and allows me to work quickly. It sounds as good as any of the other sequencers, can use vst instruments and effects, and has excellent piano-roll editing for midi. It's nowhere near as fancy as the other sequencers, but it sequences audio+midi so that's enough for me! Plus its close integration with sound forge is awesome if you work a lot with loops.

You don't need it if you've already got abelton though as abelton can do all acid can do plus more.......however, you would need to check that the loops made with abelton will work the same in p606 (i dunno).........if not maybe you can convert them in soundforge....again I'm just guessing..

Project 5 would be nice but again not really a neccessity.


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 9:22 am 
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606man, are you 100% this is working? I am working with this timestretching, but there is LOTS of noises and artefacts as soon as I change BPM more that 3 BPM from original sample's tempo. Even on short, 1 measure sample with 140BPM original speed.

For me it looks, ehm sounds like this timestretching feature is totally wrong and useless at SP-606.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 12:45 am 
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Absolutely - so long as it sounds right in p606 it'l sound the same on the hardware...that's why it's important to use acidized loops! :wink:

I DON'T know if abelton works exactly the same as I don't use it. So unless you are actually using Acid - I can't be %100.

OH I may know whats going wrong for you - it wont work unless you actually export the loop from p606 using the EXT SEQ SAMPLING function.....although you should still get more than +/- 3bpm if you just load the loop in, even un-acidized. I'll see what happens. Could be the type of loop too - melodic loops suffer way more than beats.. with melodies you are often better to chop them up using the chop function and replay them from your midi keyboard..


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 5:46 am 
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I am not using that P606 mickey-mouse-program. I have exact loops from my software sequencer, which I made Acid-ized at SoundForge. It basicaly does not relay on Acidized stuff, if you setup tempo right manually, you should be OK as well.

Yesteday I have upgraded OS from 1.05 to 1.09 and it fixed that problem a little bit. But not completly. I am having loops with beats and melodise at once, maybe that's the thing. But SP606 is not a cheep machine and for that money I would expect it is able to do timestretching right, even for whole melody loops, even for 1 - 2 or 3 minutes long loops. That was the main reason why I have brought SP606, but now I guess I was just pissed of by Roland (once) again.


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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 11:31 pm 
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well if you do use that 'mickey mouse' program it will work better....up to you I guess - do you want to be cool or do you want it to work? Since you already have the most uncool sampler available I would think you would err towards the latter..

Anyway, if you can't get it to happen, just do it the way the 'legendary' MPC does it - use the chopper to separate the parts of the loop and sequence the parts. This works perfectly if you are speeding things up and a little bit of delay usually solves the problem if you are slowing the loop down.

Of course if you had to use a particular loop without changing it you could timestretch it on computer and load it in. If you needed the same loop at two different tempi you could set this up beforehand. There's plenty of space on the card.

I too bought the sampler for it's handling of loops - and I've yet to see a peice of hardware that does it better. Software's another matter - but I wont take software on stage so this little unit is a perfect compromise between the two wolrds. I cannot afford to just buy a new piece of equipment everytime I hit a wall so I just force it to work!


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 7:15 pm 
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I have tried both importing WAV file as well as importing EXT SEQ SAMPLING, with basic same results.

Maybe I just expect too much?

606man, please get my sample:

http://www.hawkens.sk/SP606temestretchMP3.mp3

(900kB file) and hear it. It's basic loop at 140 BPM, second part is -5 BPM, thirth part is +5 BPM. Please tell me if you are getting better timestretch results at your sp606, or mine is same as yours and basicaly it's the best that I can get.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 7:23 pm 
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I have tried both importing WAV file as well as importing EXT SEQ SAMPLING, with basic same results.

Maybe I just expect too much?

606man, please get my sample:

http://www.hawkens.sk/SP606temestretchMP3.mp3

(900kB file) and hear it. It's basic loop at 140 BPM, second part is -5 BPM, thirth part is +5 BPM. Please tell me if you are getting better timestretch results at your sp606, or mine is same as yours and basicaly it's the best that I can get.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 12:10 am 
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Hey man that still sounds usable to me! There's no such thing (yet) as completely artefact-free timestretching. I like to think of timetreching as something which adds character to a sound, as well as making it fit into a track. If you really need it to fit without being altered, you need to chop it up MPC style. Also, I find that EXT SEQ works best from p606 - I've had all sorts of trouble using it directly from Acid.

Having said that, there's a couple of things that could make the timestetching that you've already done sound way better....

First off, there's too much info in the file. It sounds like a part taken from a complete track. I would suggest timetretching the Beats, Hit-hats and bassline seperately. The more audio info in a file the more artefacts you'll get - more in more out.

Secondly, one-bar loops work best. I would chop the file into separate bars so that they dont have to be changed so much. Too long a loop and there's so much more to be processed that you're bound to end up with noise.

Keep it simple and it'll work.

As an aside, it sounds as if you're making techno/trance no? That being the case, why no use the artefacts to good effect. Imean peeps spend a lot of time using bitcruschers and distortion - try overdriving the stretched sound and ramping up the reverb in real-time....it's a crowd-pleaser!

Good luck man I hope you get the results you are after in the end, no matter how you end up doing it.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:36 pm 
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I have tried same loop with soft sequencer Acid, it get better timestretch results with same loop. I am sorry about sp606, because I get it and I have expected little better results with complete loops.

I guess 606 is made for triggering samples and loops at liveact. Sequencing, multi-samples or slicing it very basic, for that option I rather get other instrument.

Let me try it with separate loops for drums / bass / instruments, maybe this will bring even better results.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:39 pm 
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Acid has a distinctive tone, but I would'nt say it's artefact-free...just depends on what you like the sound of (most people can pick an acid-stretched loop though so don't overdo it).

So far as hardware units go, the 606 rules the roost for timestretching, and I think the tone sounds great.

With the chopper, you have to try different settings - it's every bit as good as recycle at the chop, you just have to get to know it. I dont even use recycle anymore, becuase the 606 does a better job in less time.

Multisamples are very easy to use with the 606, you just have to get used to the procedure. Its worth doing simply becuase of the fat sound!

You have to be careful not to fall into the trap that so many producers do - don't focus on what can't be done by a machine; focus on what can be done by you! You make the music, not a soul-less box! :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:58 am 
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Man, artefacts are always artefacts, it's always a bad thing. You can not acclaim artefacts as something wanted - if so, it's really bad, amateurish attitude. Please don't understand it as offense, it's just how things works. Sometimes you can get some new sond from dirty stuff, but I guess this is not that case.

I think the instrument should focus musician's needs, not vice versa. But this is just a philosophic discussion. Since we own sp-606, we should get as much stuff as possible from our little instrument.


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 11:21 pm 
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Hmmmm - why not open a can of worms eh? Artefacts are a fact of timestretching. You either work with them or don't timestretch. Whilst they are not usually something desired (though those making glitch/tech music would disagree) they are something you have to deal with if you want to work with loops.

There is no one way things work in music - to think so is simply naive.

You are failing to understand that the needs of all musicians are different, and certainly not the same as yours. For this reason manufacturers cannot hope to predict what a musician may want from a piece of equipment. They just make the box and people work with it. So as you can see, an instrument is what it is and shouldn't 'focus on a musician's needs' as it is impossible for it to know what those needs are.

There are heaps of people around here working with sp-404's who seem to do OK within the 'limitations' af their machines... :wink: Imagine what you would do with a 404.....complain a lot instead of making music?

If you are worried about a few artefacts in a simple loop that would take 2 minutes to reprogram as midi (thus avoiding artefacts completely at any tempo) then maybe you need to think about your work ethic when it comes to making tunes...making music is hard work, always has been and always will be.

Only an amateur would think otherwise. :evil:


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