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 Post subject: first beat
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:51 pm 
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hello people,
now i already know a little bit about handling my SP606, what is now the best way to get my first (hiphop) beat done? done, and sound more or less good. Are there any rules to be followed - unfortunatly i never was at musical school in my childhood -.-
have a nice weekend


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 Post subject: Re: first beat
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:49 pm 
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Hey! Really good question there dude. To be honest there's no written in stone rules about beatmaking, but everyone who does it sets their own rules on themselves. Here's some fundamentals:

To get started making hip hop beats & getting them to sound musically 'right' try to limit the number of sources for your samples. Make it like one song & one set of drums or breakbeat. Nothing else, so no synths, no bass, nothing. Reason why is that songs are written to specific sets of notes (aka scales). Notes played outside the scale will sound wrong unless 9 times out of 10. Sampling 2 or more songs (for melodic and tonal sounds) for a beat is something to try later. There's a lot of folk out there making beats that NEVER sample more than one song per beat & all they make is fire.

An easy way to build a beat is: chop up the drums, make (ie sequence/play) a rhythm, add a few chops from the song & play with some FX*.

*personal SP-606 FX favourites for on-the-spot tweaking: 1- filter & drive, 4- tape echo, 7- lo-fi, 11- feedback ripper

Before adding synths, bass etc get yourself an introductory music theory book. Sampling's so abstract that complex theory doesn't really accommodate what we do (its nice to know but not essential). The basic theory will teach you how to work with other sound sources & scales (in terms of composition). Something to pick the pitch & scale of a song will help too. The program called Melodyne is simply fucking incredible for doing this, otherwise a guitar tuner hooked up to your SP can point you in the right direction. Ie- if the tuner says your sample is in E, play an E on your synth & it'll sound right (with certain scales you'll have up to 6 other 'right' options too).

Also try following the battle section here, most of the battles follow the one sample + one set of drums rule. Grab what's posted & try flipping them however you like (a plus is you'll also get to hear how others flipped the same ish). The battles are so motivating & eye opening I can't recommend them enough, even if you don't submit your results just keep having a go at them.

Next make sure that you're recording your samples loud but not too loud. Quietly recorded samples can be make OK (louder) with compression but you'll start to loose dynamic range (difference between loud & quiet parts of the sample). If that doesn't make sense now that's fine. You'll get it once you're a bit more experienced. This will help make your beats sound consistent when you listen back to them (so they don't go from quiet & muffled to loud & distorted). Same goes for recording your beat. Find volume settings on your recorder that sound right & memorise them, note them down.

^a simple way to summarise that paragraph is: garbage in -> garbage out.

Don't put any pressure on your ability. Don't be discouraged that your first beats don't sound like your idols and don't think that they'll sound like your idols either. Enjoy the process of beatmaking and you'll do just fine.

Oh yeah, don't get ripped off by anyone selling guides on how to make beats online. Just don't do it. They'll show you how the author makes a beat, but not how you can make a beat. Often they're made by douchebags who only know how to use an MPC and have no idea how music actually works (not saying I'm any better than them, I'm just a bit more honest).

Hope that wasn't too much to read. Anyone else here got tips?

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 Post subject: Re: first beat
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:42 pm 
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Hello,
Thank you for your great answer. Unfortunately i had lots of work to do in the last few days, so i had not that much time to try out. I spent most of time in playin' around with factory sounds. Indeed, the less sources i added, the better it sounded, maybe because there is a bigger chance to match 2 different sources to each other than 4 or 5. I liked the combination of Drums with some Jazz elements such as saxophone and guitar riffs found on the internet as free downloads. ;)
Now i m looking for a music school book (maybe as pdf if available...), to better understand what makes the difference between ugly noise and music, how to choose the right elements to match with each other... I never liked theoretical stuff, but i think this time it will be really helpful... If a small kid can play a piano, a young man like me should also be able to handle 16 pads of my SP606.
I should be angry not having learnt playing a piano...
People, don't be afraid of posting some soundclound beats, so i can listen to them as an example :)
Thank you and good evening ;)
Greetings


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 Post subject: Re: first beat
PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:09 am 
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bgreene wrote:
the less sources i added, the better it sounded, maybe because there is a bigger chance to match 2 different sources to each other than 4 or 5. I liked the combination of Drums with some Jazz elements such as saxophone and guitar riffs found on the internet as free downloads. ;)
Hahaha! Yeah jazz has been mined by beat makers since day 1. Everyone who's ever made a beat has turned to jazz at some point. If they say they haven't then they're a liar. :lol: You're right about it being easier to match 2 samples compared to 3 or 4. If you limit to one song plus one set of drums you'll be fine.

bgreene wrote:
If a small kid can play a piano, a young man like me should also be able to handle 16 pads of my SP606.
I should be angry not having learnt playing a piano...
Nah mate no problems there, I learned to make IDM in Reason by trial & error before learning how play bass guitar at 22 (I'm 28 now & still learning every time I pick up an instrument). Any musician that stops learning is failing themself as a musician. Learning an instrument is something for life, so it doesn't matter how old you are.

bgreene wrote:
People, don't be afraid of posting some soundclound beats, so i can listen to them as an example :)
Thank you and good evening ;)
Yo like I mentioned, check the battle section here! Battle #125 just ended, peep all the entries here & vote for your favourite:
http://sp-forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=13956.

All beats were made using the same song as the one & only sample source. Some vocals were also permitted (taken from anywhere). Have a listen, you're gonna hear some mad variety! Oh yeah, the SP model dedicated sub-forums are pretty quiet. Start a thread like this in the Freedom Of Speech section, you'll get more responses there.

Cheers!

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 Post subject: Re: first beat
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:40 pm 
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Hello and sorry for the late answer again, you know, the girls... ^^
well but now i had some time left for my sp606 for a few days again. when i started playin' i recorded 2 or 3 tracks by using different instruments. It sounded not that bad, because i used realtime recording instead of step recording (which i erroneously thought to be easier as realtime rec...). Unfortunately it always sounded nearly the same because i only have factorysounds on my padbanks. Is there a website where i can download other musical instrumental cords as samples? or should i sample them my self?
greetings


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 Post subject: Re: first beat
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:28 pm 
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Haha! Yeah the presets are pretty terrible. To be honest the drum sounds are OK, but everything else is largely useless, even the bass pads on bank 4 (heresy?!). They're saved in there as a way to demonstrate the device in-store, not for making music that represents you.

Most of the folks around here will find samples from copyrighted sources straight out of their own personal music collection. While sharing copyright infringing music is basically illigal everywhere nobody would bother to come after people like us demanding royalty money. Unless we strike it massive (hasn't happened yet, but you never know the next Kanye may be walking among us).

So try & sample some music you like. If you can play a few instruments- even better!

Have you checked out the battle section yet? The last battle (number 126) had two great jazz samples. Grab them & try to flip them independently of each other.

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 Post subject: Re: first beat
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:36 am 
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yes, padbank 4 is definetly useless. since the first day i had my 606 and knew how to switch the padbanks (what took about 27 seconds), i never used it again ;)
well, no unfortunately i can't play a classical instrument, i never was in music school, and the music course at school i always missed. today i'm real sad about not having listend to that strange guy talking us about bars, measurements etc.
I saw some videos and interviews about that copyright thing for sampling an existing track, but i think if you don't use it to make millions, noone will watch after you for using a small piece of a song. even through, it's some kind of publicity, so famous artists should pay us, the bedroom/semiprofessional producers, for showing our friends what beauties where unhidden in that song.
It occured already some times to me, that a friend of mine was at my place while i was "freestyling" a little bit around, asked where this sample would come from.
Every time a stunning face when showing them the origin of it, so the originator was mentioned.
If you should earn millions with that sample, you should also be as intelligent enough to modify the sample in a way it is not anymore under anyone else's copyright ;)
We (or i at least) don't need to worry about copyright, i'm using all my music in a privat, non-comercial way.
If i sample a song, how can i cut it afterwards? is this done by CHOP-function? i don't get this done. every time i chop, the 606 deletes something else as i wanted her to delete (TRUNC)... I don't get it with those START/END arrows, how to set them and how to change it's position on the display.
greetings


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 Post subject: Re: first beat
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:42 am 
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hello again, i did not see your last sentence.
Yes, i even bookmarked the link, but i think it was battle 125. some of the beats sound quiet good and already professional. I listened to some producers on soundcloud.


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 Post subject: Re: first beat
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:41 am 
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Cool, glad you've got reference points now by checking the battles.

Sampling ethics & music know-how aside...

The 'CHOP' function is weird, I never liked it & never used it right. It's a good idea done poorly.

'SAMPLE LOOP EDIT' is what you need to learn to use. It is a bit abstract, but when you get used to it you'll be fine. The START/END markers are used with the jog wheel or the 'DEC' & 'INC' buttons (I prefer the jog wheel, its quicker than 'DEC' & 'INC'). Turn the jog wheel clockwise & counter-clockwise to move them. The wheel adjusts on marker at a time.

Important: Also use the up/down/left/right arrows

Up/down make the sound wave appear larger & smaller. This is useful when making really fine start & end edits.

Left/right adjusts the amount of sound wave visible. This is useful for seeing how much you're playing on the pad & adjusting start/end points (resolutions like 1/16 down to 1/1 are good for fine tuning, resolutions like 1/128 through to 1/512 are good for moving quickly around long samples).

When you adjust start & end they ALWAYS adjust what the pad will play. If you want to have the same sample play across different pads, use the 'CLIP BOARD' to copy the sound to new pads & adjust them separately.

^If you start doing that, set the same sound pads to the same mute group in the 'SAMPLE PARAMETER' menu. This will make one pad's sound cut off the other pad's sound. Think of how a closed hihat cuts off an open hihat. That's what mute groups do.

Use thr 'TRUNC' option when you know exactly what part of the sample is right for you. This is also good for saving memory. The more you sample, don't use & don't truncate means you're wasting the SP's limited memory.

__________________________

Here's a little challenge for you:

Grab a single bar from any song you like. Then chop it into quarter notes so you can rearrange that bar on your SP. Its heaps of fun & super rewarding you do this the first time & is a fundamental trick in sampling.

First step- grab the sample & adjust start/end markers so that it loops smoothly & you can count "1,2,3,4" in time with the music. The loop will ALWAYS start on "1". Make sure a kick drum plays on "1". Once you've done that, truncate the sample. Keep this as your master sample, you'll use it as a reference point later.

Second step- copy the master sample across pads 1 through 4.

Third step-
On pad 1, bring the end marker so the sample stops IMMEDIATELY before you can count to "2".
On pad 2, roll the start to the point where pad 1 ends & roll the end to where you would normally count to 3.
On pad 3 roll the start to where you count "3" & stop (guess where?) immediately before the count of "4".
On pad 4 roll the start right over to where you would count "4".
Now make sure that none of the samples end with a loud click, adjust the ends to there's no click (or at least is really quiet).

Fourth step- check your edits on pads 1 through 4 compared to the original sample. Do they line up right? If so, good work. If not, go & tweak them. Tip- on the master sample (after truncating) note the end value's number. Divide this by 4 to get an idea of how long pads 1 through 4 should play for. This isn't always perfect because the music you're sampling may have a little swing & looseness which will make clinical maths feel a bit nasty.

Fifth step- adjust the sample parameter for pads 1 through 4 so they have the same trigger mode (use 'SHOT' or 'ALTERNATE') & the mute group is set the same (let's use 1 this time). You may want to truncate pads 1 through 4 to remove the unwanted & unusued portions of the sample on each pad.

Sixth step- start playing the pads one after the other. See how you're always playing some that sounds musically 'right'? See how each sound overrides the last sound playing? Fun isn't it? Once you've got the hang of this you should be able to start grabbing notes from phrases & rearranging drum breaks with a load more confidence.

Good luck! Don't be afraid to pipe up if I missed anything there or didn't explain it right.

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 Post subject: Re: first beat
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:30 am 
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Hello, yes it's nice because on the battle-links i can hear what exactly is possible by using an SP606 only.
what a complete answer, that was what i was looking for. Many thanks! Ithink my major fault by setting START and END points was to not pay attention on the resolution. Indeed, it chops in some strange ways. I will try out as soon as possible and also may record it to share with you.
Once again, Many Thanks.
Challenge accepted, of course ;)
Have a good day/night
Peace


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 Post subject: Re: first beat
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:23 pm 
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Cool! Glad that was a helpful few paragraphs, speak up whenever you need a hand or have a question. Once you've mastered resampling & the realtime sequence recorder you'll be a pro on the SP-606.

Don't forget the micro edit either, once you've got 4 bars looping nice go into the micro edit & try these:
A, Playing with velocity on drum hits adds a more natural vibe.
B, If you use quantize during recording, move some one shot sounds (kick drum/hihat & single synth/instrument notes) back & forth in tiny increments to get a human vibe to them, it adds looseness & natural swing.

Noticed just then that you've favourited some of my stuff on Soundcloud, cheers! I was thinking of erasing the old stuff soon to make way for new music (account's nearly full), so you'd better download it soon! Gonna get back into making beats routinely soon.

Don't hold back showing off what you've made either! Post your track in the 'Your Music' section to get feedback from others here.

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 Post subject: Re: first beat
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:29 am 
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Hello,
You call it a few paragraphs? I would rather say it's a real good explanation o how to create a simple beat on the SP606.
yes i was listening to some of your stuff too while listening some non commercial music on soundclound some were real amazing and inspirational. Knowing your beats were made on the same machine as i got makes them even more interesting. It easily shows what's possible by using only an SP606. Indeed like i found out, Realtime Recording isn't complicated. Only get 2 sounds matching good together, record them to track 1 and adding some other instruments/bass on track 2. But how can i delete a single track without deleting the other 3 tracks?
Haha, i never tried to push the micro-button while recording, i thought it would stand for microPHONE instead of microSCOPE ;) but i'll try it out as soon as i will have some time left for my 606
Again, thank you for your help. Because of your help i did not lose hope on learning how to make a beat on the 606 :)


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 Post subject: Re: first beat
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:39 am 
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Cool! A few other SP-606 dudes worth checking out here are Ellaguru, Teewok & Ill-Green. Those guys are all on their own levels & can make some incredible music with just a 606.

OK- to remove sounds from a single track without removing the whole pattern? 2 ways.

1st way:
At the pattern screen press F2 (to edit the pattern) then F1 (micro). Use the jog wheel to find your sample & go for it! From this window you can create new 'notes'/pad hits with F1, erase notes with F2 & move notes with F3. The finest position you can edit to on an SP-606 is 1/96 of one bar, which is finer than some DAWs (ie- Reason) allow you to edit to!

2nd way:
When using Realtime Record, hit F1 (Erase). From here either hold down the pad you want to be erased or press F2 to start erasing everything. Note that erasing in the realtime recorder also acts in realtime so if you're making a 16 bar pattern be patient!

Use the 4 tracks in the sequencer however you feel most comfortable. Setting up melodic/lead samples in track 1 & bass/rhythm stuff in track 2 should work fine. I usually have drums & percussion in track 1, melodic samples in track 2, extra bits in track 3 & melodic variations in track 4. Previously I'd put everything on 1 & 2, then make a second pattern on 3 & 4 then swap between them as I was going. There's no correct way to use the sequencer, so find what you like best!

The reason why I'm happy to help is because I remember exactly what it's like being in your position. The SP-606 was my first sampler & I had no idea of how to use it, took about 2.5 years to figure out the 'how' & 'why' aspects of this thing on my own. If I had a mentor I'd have been making fire consistently much faster.

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