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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:34 pm 
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I'm a girl, but it's cool :) & I get communicating on forums can be difficult, but, no, I didn't get you wrong at all. I know you didn't listen to Ghost Bazz's music, which is why I said "listen to his music".

YOU SAID IN ORDER TO MAKE HIP HOP YOU CANNOT PUSH EQUIPMENT UNLESS YOU DEVIATE FROM THE GENRE.

HE GAVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF HOW FAR YOU CAN PUSH EQUIPMENT.

& YOU CALL IT PLAIN OLD HIP HOP.

IF HE'S PUSHING THE EQUIPMENT, WHICH IS ONLY POSSIBLE IF YOU DEVIATE FROM HIP HOP, HOW IS IT PLAIN OLD HIP HOP?

Because it's a beat meant to be rapped on?

I used to freestyle a lot at karaoke bars & I would let people in the bar pick out random songs (country, pop, classic rock, ect) & I would freestyle to it. So fun, I loved that shit. You as in people can rap on anything.

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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:46 pm 
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Hi Sharris,
This week I identify as a coyote! (male)
I'm glad you had fun at karaoke. That sounds really cool.

I think you chopped and screwed what I've been saying pretty darn well. At least I found it entertaining. I hope you are able to apply that remix technique to the type of music you choose to make with Roland's wonderful SP series.
Speaking in generalities, that kind of approach might help one gain confidence in their own abilities and no longer internalize everything anyone says in a "freedom of speech" forum.

awooooooo,
Smudge


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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:05 pm 
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I just love to debate is all & this is my life, so I'm very passionate about it.

Since I chopped & screwed your words, here are your actual quotes, just as a reminder:

SMUDGE wrote:
And it's not just this forum, because most of the quasi-instructional videos on YouTube I see for SPs (or MPCs) seem to always be hip hop based and honestly there is only so far a person is going to push their equipment in that particular genre before they deviate from the form altogether.


SMUDGE wrote:
To my logic it follows that there are just so many tricks one is going to do with their equipment to make music of that specific genre.


SMUDGE wrote:
And I'd agree with a previous poster that sample based music has less wiggle room than other types music.


SMUDGE wrote:
All those techniques sound awesome, but if you're doing all that and still making hip hop, well, you're still making hip hop. You're not adding anything new to the form if it's still primarily 4/4 sample music condusive to rapping. I don't care if you're an amateur or a pro in that regard. Still plain ol hip hop.


Your right, I took out some stuff. Chopped it a bit. Def not screwed tho.

Works almost over, which means my forum time is almost over. I don't seem to be getting anywhere anyways. & I'm not internalizing. You're right. Freedom of speech. Isn't that what I am doing as well? In all honesty almost all my posts were filled with me asking you questions trying to understand where you are coming from, but you are not providing answers or insights, just judgments. Which is fine. Speak freely. & I will too :D

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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:26 am 
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Yo Sharris! Thanks for the kind words girl!

@Smudge
Generally speaking, you seem to be a bit behind the times - and that's to say nothing of your close-mindedness, which is only complicating things. The music industry has changed... digital revolution and what not. I would argue that many genre's today, and particularly sub-genres are being shaped by what is happening at the grass roots level... SoundCloud being only one aspect of that. Unless you are only listening to top 40 hits in mainstream genres, this is the new norm dude. I guess the main point to that comment is that your perception of "the art form" of hip hop is uninformed and inaccurate. What years did you actively DJ? Independent record labels are supporting acts with proven following at the ground level... that is to say, less artists are being created by big money record labels who aim at pop trends based on millions of dollars of market research. Music has diversified dude. I don't want to over-analyze your comments regarding hip hop. It's pretty clear that you are in over your head in that aspect of the discussion. Here's some basic stuff... who says hip hop needs to be 4/4 time? Who says hip hop is ever intended to be rapped on? Come on dude.

You may have some valid points on tech info... maybe not. You are wrong in your assessment of hip hop though guy.

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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:17 am 
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Hey Ghost Bazz,

If Soundcloud (and it sounds like you mean the Soundcloud members who might even post links in this forum) has any affect on the art form of hip hop, then I have to ask:

If the Soundcloud/SP-Forum uploaders are so influential with the form, then why is the form so stagnant? Why hasn’t it advanced since they cracked down on sampling in the 90s? It all sounds the same. It may not all look the same, but in musical terms it all sounds the same. That’s quantifiable mathematically as I said before. I don’t care if the beats stutter occasionally or if they sampled deep space noise, it’s a very limited kind of music. And if the Soundcloud/SP-Forum uploaders are so unique and groundbreaking, why doesn’t the form sound more diverse and experimental? By form I mean the popular conception of the art form. Not some down the rabbit hole martian stuff that only intellectuals like. The Form.

You and others seem to be ignoring that I said essentially go for it, DIY, have fun! etc. I think this may be because either you, or someone of a like mind, may be delusional as to your importance to hip hop as a whole and want to think of yourselves as up-and-coming rather than amateur.
Let me educate you. There has not been real risk taking in popular music, as far as who got signed and who was given a platform since the 1960s, when the old guys who ran the labels put basically anything out as long as the kids had long hair and dressed weird. That meant that all at once a weird variety of music got into the heads of the population. This affected what was popularly considered the forms, of rock, R&B, you name it.

The hip hop acts of today who actually get exposure squander it. They could choose to imitate and take a chance like you seem to say Soundcloud/SP-Forum users do, but I see no indication that you guys have any influence whatsoever. Unless of course, I am so in over my head, close minded, and behind the times as you say, that I am mistaking what you describe as your own originality and diversity for stagnation as well. If you disagree, don’t sweat it. Talented or not, you’re an amateur and you get a pass because you are truly inconsequential to the form. And my opinion of modern hip hop is just my opinion, duh. Have fun like I’ve said. Love SPs! Just don’t delude yourself.

BTW You could replace hip hop with any other genre (especially EDM-type stuff) in the above and it could still basically apply. Modern music has been stagnating in general dude. Hip Hop just happens to be all over this forum, which used to have less self-promotion and more meat and potatoes nitty gritty tech stuff, and Hip Hop is the easiest to produce, write, perform, etc. If it wasn’t it wouldn’t have been invented by guys with record players and tape decks.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:01 am 
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@smudge

bro you do know hip hop was invented in new york city right

you seem pretty ignorant to say that east coast hip hop came after west coast. it seemed like you implied that

also it's really fucking dumb to point out that no one on the forum is a famous artist??? you do understand that samplers are out-dated technology right? this is an underground art.

if you think music is stagnant you're really ignorant man. the music scene has more going on than ever before. you have to dig to find good shit. mainstream is trash.

if you don't hear diversity in sample based music, you're not looking into it enough dude. you're barely scratching the surface. you can't listen to 10 beats and make assumptions. jesus christ you are making reckless statements dude.

https://soundcloud.com/zendanisdead/blu-r00m-fx-rape

if you don't want to listen to this entire track, listen to the second half. tell me it sounds like everyone else's shit.

second half of the song was sampled from an NES

everything is vinyl sampled/NES sampled into an SP404SX and bounced off tape. no computers.


there are plenty of out-there productions that are sample based. my shit isn't that out-there but you just need to dig deeper man.

i don't like naming names because i'm one of those hipster guys that doesn't like it when lames listen to the music i like

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HAWTKARL wrote:
The last thing we need is another utube sampling digital lo-fi anime beat maker.

IIIII wrote:
he can turn water into a beat, and feed a thousand dancehalls with only two drumbreaks

"If you want that '90s sound, record at 12 bit as HOT as you can."


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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:14 am 
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SMUDGE wrote:
There has not been real risk taking in popular music, as far as who got signed and who was given a platform since the 1960s


so what the fuck is your point?? popular music is for the masses. there is risk taking in underground music. i don't understand your logic dude

oh and just a btw man, i do not think i am up and coming or that i'm ever going to make a name for myself in music. i do it for fun; i have a passion for it. this is how i spend my free time. this is not my career.

if you want to know the truth, a year or two ago i actually was up and coming but my process suddenly halted for personal reasons. (my mother passed away, i lost my job, i lost my place to live, i lost my long-term girlfriend, etc.) i had gained 1000 followers over the course of like 3 or 4 months.
i started a label that caused a couple people to make it in the industry. i signed someone who had less than 200 followers at the time. now he has 15,000 and of course, he left the label. several other people got put on by my label and left me behind when my mom passed away and i lost everything.

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HAWTKARL wrote:
The last thing we need is another utube sampling digital lo-fi anime beat maker.

IIIII wrote:
he can turn water into a beat, and feed a thousand dancehalls with only two drumbreaks

"If you want that '90s sound, record at 12 bit as HOT as you can."


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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:22 am 
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zendan wrote:
jesus christ you are making reckless statements dude.
Truth.

@smudge
Dude... again, you are so wrong. Your whole platform is misinformed.

People on this forum aren't looking for their big break, or assuming that we are the fuckin hip hop movement of the day... that shit is laughable dude. The art form (again, not "forum") isn't dictated by what is played on the radio. That's called popular music. Some would argue that the "art" is missing from that format entirely. It is in fact mostly, if not completely about making money. We fuck with the form to make the art. This is the lifeblood... not for money, for joy. This is the art form... not mainstream. Mainstream is always behind the real scene dude... if you've fucked with music ever, in any capacity, you should know that shit.

What's the future of hip hop... it's probably dudes who play guitars into their samplers and then add drums and bass and say they don't make hip hop (shout out to the homie Kegeratorz!). My point is, people here do what serves their creative tendencies. Not many people here even attach a genre to the music they make, although a lot of us may love hip hop. No one is really grinding to make it big in here because it's not that kind of crowd. Promoting on this site is actually really mellow. People post in the music section... call it promotion, as it sometimes is, but it's also a lot of sharing. We want to hear each others music and that is the designated place to share. It's super easy to never click on the music section if you don't want to see that.

and...
SMUDGE wrote:
It all sounds the same. It may not all look the same, but in musical terms it all sounds the same. That’s quantifiable mathematically as I said before.


This implies that your understanding of mathematics is just as flawed as your perception of hip hop. Other people are dropping specific examples that disprove the general assumptions you keep throwing out over and over.

Again dude... what years did you actually listen to music? I'm also curious as to what you use your SP for?

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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:49 am 
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Ghost Bazz wrote:
I'm also curious as to what you use your SP for?


forrillllll i already asked him this

why won't you tell us fudge??

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HAWTKARL wrote:
The last thing we need is another utube sampling digital lo-fi anime beat maker.

IIIII wrote:
he can turn water into a beat, and feed a thousand dancehalls with only two drumbreaks

"If you want that '90s sound, record at 12 bit as HOT as you can."


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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:07 am 
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SMUDGE wrote:
Ghost Bazz, I also like Geto Boys and Scarface. Master P and Silk the Shocker and that Dirty South stuff had its moments too, but those older guys I mentioned have already said it all as far as I'm interested in hearing. It's been educational fellas. Thanks for your input.



are you serious, guy?

i swear to god....

please do me a favor and bang some SUC, UGK, three 6 mafia, DJ screw, tommy wright iii, 8ball & MJG, and i'm not going to tell you the rest because you don't deserve to know about that good underground shit. i'm from texas. grew up with varying music influencing me, including southern rap.

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HAWTKARL wrote:
The last thing we need is another utube sampling digital lo-fi anime beat maker.

IIIII wrote:
he can turn water into a beat, and feed a thousand dancehalls with only two drumbreaks

"If you want that '90s sound, record at 12 bit as HOT as you can."


Last edited by zendan on Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:17 am 
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[quote="SMUDGE"]

if you look at it with any intellectual honesty hip hop is absolutely the most limited music genre of all.


Man..I'm sorry but in my many years as a performing musician this is one of the most uninformed and totally inaccurate statements I have ever heard.

You do realise that some of us were here at the birth of this shit, right ?

When Hip Hop first started it was revolutionary,ground-breaking music and still is,provided you know where to look.

So,let me get this straight-you're actually saying that the composition process and production and engineering skills involved in making albums like 'Fear Of A Black Planet' 'Liquid Swordz' or 'Entroducing' coupled with the lyrical complexities of someone like Del Tha Funky Homosapian or Rakim for example or an album built entirely from hundreds of separate sounds that are then scratched and sampled to make records like D-Styles' 'Phantazmagorea' or 'Wave Twisters' by
Q-Bert are 'the most limited forms of any musical genre' ???

Or how about the collaboration between the Canadian instrumental Hip Hop group BadBadNotGood and Ghostface Killah which resulted in the excellent 'Sour Soul' album back in 2015 -would you call that 'limited genre wise' ?..because I certainly wouldn't.


Seriously,words truly fail me.

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Last edited by Danswift on Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:47 am 
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Danswift wrote:

You do realise that some of us were here at the birth of this shit, right ?
...
So, you're actually saying that the composition process and production and engineering skills involved in making albums like... 'Liquid Swordz'...


ugh, god, i love liquid swords

how old are you, friend? if you don't mind me asking, of course

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HAWTKARL wrote:
The last thing we need is another utube sampling digital lo-fi anime beat maker.

IIIII wrote:
he can turn water into a beat, and feed a thousand dancehalls with only two drumbreaks

"If you want that '90s sound, record at 12 bit as HOT as you can."


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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:59 am 
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seems Smudge's opinion of hip hop and music in general is based on a dipping in and out of various scenes and what sounds like a pretty mainstream diet.

I don't know where the line between amateur and professional really lies, as there are "amateurs" i know who are way more musically talented and put out more stuff than "professional " pop musicians. the money they make from music may be at different levels, but that's not the only measure of musicality. in fact that's got nothing to do with musicality.... so i dunno where you expect people such as SP-Forums users to fit in.

some peeps here are amateur, sure, some are next level producers, there might even be some famous legends lurking on forums like these... who knows.

but the "music industry" is made up of peole of all levels, up and down the spectrum. don't let commercials trick you into thinking that pop musicians, famous old musicians, or anyone else is super-human. i'm sure the industry has just ans many genius's as id does fuck-up all the way fro mthe bottom to the top.


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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:05 am 
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symatic wrote:
seems Smudge's opinion of hip hop and music in general is based on a dipping in and out of various scenes and what sounds like a pretty mainstream diet.

I don't know where the line between amateur and professional really lies, as there are "amateurs" i know who are way more musically talented and put out more stuff than "professional " pop musicians. the money they make from music may be at different levels, but that's not the only measure of musicality. in fact that's got nothing to do with musicality.... so i dunno where you expect people such as SP-Forums users to fit in.

some peeps here are amateur, sure, some are next level producers, there might even be some famous legends lurking on forums like these... who knows.

but the "music industry" is made up of peole of all levels, up and down the spectrum. don't let commercials trick you into thinking that pop musicians, famous old musicians, or anyone else is super-human. i'm sure the industry has just ans many genius's as id does fuck-up all the way fro mthe bottom to the top.


was thinking this, glad someone said it

thank you for the valuable input

symatic wrote:
i'm sure the industry has just ans many genius's as id does fuck-up all the way fro mthe bottom to the top.


um..... what?
:? :? :?

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HAWTKARL wrote:
The last thing we need is another utube sampling digital lo-fi anime beat maker.

IIIII wrote:
he can turn water into a beat, and feed a thousand dancehalls with only two drumbreaks

"If you want that '90s sound, record at 12 bit as HOT as you can."


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 Post subject: Re: What's the point?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:11 am 
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sorry i need more coffee....

i meant to say:

I'm sure the industry has just as many genius's as it does fuck-up all the way from the bottom to the top.

as in.... even among the industry elite, theres some people faking it till they make it....


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