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 Post subject: Re: useful VSTs i've used
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:44 am 
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zendan wrote:
bro dookie you're just wrong, like i don't even have to explain. but you can think you're right if you want i'm coolin no beef or nun dog. i never said you can't make music that sounds good with all digital shits tho!!! it's just not the same homie :wink: :wink:


Cause you can’t explain it hahahahaha. What part of my opinion am I wrong about? Analog vs vst and digital has always been a subjective shit show!

W/e I guess you must have soo much more experience and knowledge than anyone here but you’re too good to contribute anything worth contributing :lol:

You can see why you’re lame right? Or are you that delusional?


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 Post subject: Re: useful VSTs i've used
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:27 am 
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Is it bye or dookie......i thought i was talkin to dookie :?:
Yea, analog vs digital been dragged apart & talked to death.... its fun to talk about tho.... until it gets out of hand... which it did :!:
Probably cuz so much of it is based on opinions, not everyone is gonna agree.

Im fine agreeing to disagree :)
...im the opposite......i fell in love with analog synths when i actually used a few in my beats & heard them in the mix.

I do agree there are so many diff analog sounds just like so many digital sounds.....i dont like lumpin them together..... which is why i was givin examples of actual synths i have experience with. You mentioned you can't tell the diff between analog & vsts, which is your opinion, you hear what you hear..... & again i dont have a lot of experience with vst's, so i wasnt being specific..... im just interested in hearing a vst that sounds analog.....if it can sound analog in any way, im interested in hearing it.

I know digital can get close but there is a certain type of sound analog has, that i havent heard in a digital synth yet. Doesnt mean digitals bad. & i dont like ALL analog sounds.

Alot of vst's suggested in this thread im checkin out.......


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 Post subject: Re: useful VSTs i've used
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:52 pm 
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Sharris wrote:
Is it bye or dookie......i thought i was talkin to dookie :?:
Yea, analog vs digital been dragged apart & talked to death.... its fun to talk about tho.... until it gets out of hand... which it did :!:
Probably cuz so much of it is based on opinions, not everyone is gonna agree.

Im fine agreeing to disagree :)
...im the opposite......i fell in love with analog synths when i actually used a few in my beats & heard them in the mix.

I do agree there are so many diff analog sounds just like so many digital sounds.....i dont like lumpin them together..... which is why i was givin examples of actual synths i have experience with. You mentioned you can't tell the diff between analog & vsts, which is your opinion, you hear what you hear..... & again i dont have a lot of experience with vst's, so i wasnt being specific..... im just interested in hearing a vst that sounds analog.....if it can sound analog in any way, im interested in hearing it.

I know digital can get close but there is a certain type of sound analog has, that i havent heard in a digital synth yet. Doesnt mean digitals bad. & i dont like ALL analog sounds.

Alot of vst's suggested in this thread im checkin out.......


Edit: I removed the list of gear I've owned cause that's besides the point!

you can check out these links here and formulate your own opinion... again its all subjective and people have diff opinions hahahaha :mrgreen:

Monark vids
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McsKlhvXxH8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FRNk1TBBx0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gmPJCEyv-I

Endless debate
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/1038257-ni-monark-sounds-way-better-than-my-sub-phatty-do-i-need-my-ears-cleaned-6.html

Diva
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwn6NCG2bdE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca-vd1qwctY

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/1168651-diva-vs-analogue-hits-test.html

There are tons of comparisons and samples if you google. Fact is, people are getting real good at creating good emulations and they will only get better.

(DISCLAIMER!!!!: THIS IS MY OWN OPINION)
The only hardware synths worth getting for sound pallets are the funky hybrid ones or some wavetable synths that don't have proper emulations yet. Also..Eruoracks...

With that said, I still want to someday own a real minimoog, fender rhodes, and space echo. Not for the sound, but for the experience and feels to play those instruments.

bye


Last edited by Bye on Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: useful VSTs i've used
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:54 pm 
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Great post bye, im gonna check that shit out, thanks!

& I saw all the stuff you played with :wink:
I get it.....ive done the same... you're not here to fight, just here to discuss music & makin beats. Doin what you love!


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 Post subject: Re: useful VSTs i've used
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:49 pm 
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please show me a rhodes VST that sounds anything close to the real thing man. you must be partially deaf or something bro; i'm sorry to hear that!

it's not an opinion

ANALOG AND DIGITAL ARE TWO DIFFERENT PHYSICAL FORMS OF SIGNALS


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 Post subject: Re: useful VSTs i've used
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:55 pm 
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You do understand a Rhodes isn't a synth right? You can't emulate an electric guitar either. At least not well.

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 Post subject: Re: useful VSTs i've used
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:13 pm 
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zendan wrote:
please show me a rhodes VST that sounds anything close to the real thing man. you must be partially deaf or something bro; i'm sorry to hear that!

it's not an opinion

ANALOG AND DIGITAL ARE TWO DIFFERENT PHYSICAL FORMS OF SIGNALS


damn are we getting down to the nitty gritty and comparing fucking signals and soundwaves? LOL

Of course there's a fucking physical difference. Also you have to consider your recording chain. You recording that nice minimoog or fender rhodes into a shit chain it yields nothing special hahahaha.

This thread was about fucking VST...virtual instruements and FX and what you could achieve with those tools to make others think its the real thing. All perceptions and opinions.

Here are some examples of my fav rhodes vst, which I already mentioned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Tmd1JQx86Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-4gD0z8Ce0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVOwYGcoVZs&t=36s

I'm not trying to debate what's analog or not cause in the end it doesn't really matter. Just giving people alternatives to achieve certain sounds without dropping G's on the real thing.


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 Post subject: Re: useful VSTs i've used
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:24 pm 
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aadu3k wrote:
You do understand a Rhodes isn't a synth right? You can't emulate an electric guitar either. At least not well.


yeah, its an electric piano...
guitars are harder to emulate due to the variety to picking/playing techniques. Doesn't mean that there aren't people who cant make a vst sound indistinguishable.

depending on your skill and sample/vst quality YMMV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTV27TnvHtA


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 Post subject: Re: useful VSTs i've used
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:38 pm 
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I get what you're saying bye.......

But you said "It would be very hard to hear the difference between vsts and analog synths"

That's the issue I think he's having. Some of the vst's you mentioned, I've heard & I think they sound nothing like the real thing.

Again, it is an opinion...... YOU can't tell the difference.
But there are people that can tell the difference.

And lumping all analog together & all digital together is hard, there are so many different sounds.

I shouldn't even keep this going, I'll stop. You're right this thread is about vst's.....but in my defense....I didn't bring up analog synths....... the above statement got me questioning & I love talkin about it.


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 Post subject: Re: useful VSTs i've used
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Sharris wrote:
I get what you're saying bye.......

But you said "It would be very hard to hear the difference between vsts and analog synths"

That's the issue I think he's having. Some of the vst's you mentioned, I've heard & I think they sound nothing like the real thing.

Again, it is an opinion...... YOU can't tell the difference.
But there are people that can tell the difference.

And lumping all analog together & all digital together is hard, there are so many different sounds.

I shouldn't even keep this going, I'll stop. You're right this thread is about vst's.....but in my defense....I didn't bring up analog synths....... the above statement got me questioning & I love talkin about it.


Yeah its nothing against you. I'm just trying to give options here.
It's all good that others can tell the difference. But for me, at the end of the day a song that is arranged well with complementary sounds is the all that really matters. How you get there is on you.

Analog Warmth and convoluted recording chains has turned into a hipster meme.

People aren't listening to music with a fucking oscilloscope LOL.

DISCLAIMER!!!: NOT DIRECTED TO ANYONE IN PARTICULAR :lol:
At the end of the day its the artist behind their tools. If you think buying a minimoog will make your bass lines sound better than a vst that sounds close enough... or you think you'll play better on a mark v vs a midi keyboard... lol its your money not mine....

I only intended to share interesting and useful tools.

Cheers.
(Edit: Guess not)


Last edited by Bye on Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: useful VSTs i've used
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:00 pm 
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When I make music I don't care what others hear.... I guess that's the difference too...... I care about how I think it sounds & what it took to get there...... how it makes me feel...... it's cool if others enjoy it too, but it's not a focus of mine. & I need to be proud of what I made in order to share with people....


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 Post subject: Re: useful VSTs i've used
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:30 pm 
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It will adds nothing to the conversation, but these guys are cool XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y10AmCiKde8


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 Post subject: Re: useful VSTs i've used
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:14 am 
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hey forest, nice video, i didn't know that emu-sampler with keys, amazing.
I'm with zendan, vst and analog are not the same thing, they don't sound the same. I'm doing film photo and we have the same talk with the digital camera users but even if you really well emulate the film camera, it won't never be like a film !
On a film there's the soul of the moment captured on a physical format, there is something special you can't explain, it gives the view of the person who takes the photo and not an objective cold view. Sometimes, the temperature, your feeling or a lot of parameters can affect the film that doesn't affect the digital camera.
The analog synths : same (some old digital/ fm too), the temperature of the chip inside, the way you press the keys or even a little defect on your unit can affect the sound (i mean micro variation, but still...). The quality of the chips and filters are drastically better than on a computer (which at first isn't built for that).
I remember when i was playin on my yamaha DX, after 1 hour of playin with the same patch (and no lfo or something) it could variate a lot because of the temperature.
I remember my OG404 never sounded exactly the same as my friend's one (probably because it was older) / yes ! there are even differences between the same model because sometimes they change the brand of composant (even for a short moment : out of stock) or the value of 1 resistor which can affect the sound on harware and when you use a sampler/synth for +1000hours, the composants are not in the same state than when there are new and people often forget that point.
That's why even if you use exactly the same samplers and machines (but different models) to reproduce exactly the same sound, it won't be exactly the same twice (particulary 30 years after).


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 Post subject: Re: useful VSTs i've used
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:56 am 
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L0WC0$T_ wrote:
hey forest, nice video, i didn't know that emu-sampler with keys, amazing.
I'm with zendan, vst and analog are not the same thing, they don't sound the same. I'm doing film photo and we have the same talk with the digital camera users but even if you really well emulate the film camera, it won't never be like a film !
On a film there's the soul of the moment captured on a physical format, there is something special you can't explain, it gives the view of the person who takes the photo and not an objective cold view. Sometimes, the temperature, your feeling or a lot of parameters can affect the film that doesn't affect the digital camera.
The analog synths : same (some old digital/ fm too), the temperature of the chip inside, the way you press the keys or even a little defect on your unit can affect the sound (i mean micro variation, but still...). The quality of the chips and filters are drastically better than on a computer (which at first isn't built for that).
I remember when i was playin on my yamaha DX, after 1 hour of playin with the same patch (and no lfo or something) it could variate a lot because of the temperature.
I remember my OG404 never sounded exactly the same as my friend's one (probably because it was older) / yes ! there are even differences between the same model because sometimes they change the brand of composant (even for a short moment : out of stock) or the value of 1 resistor which can affect the sound on harware and when you use a sampler/synth for +1000hours, the composants are not in the same state than when there are new and people often forget that point.
That's why even if you use exactly the same samplers and machines (but different models) to reproduce exactly the same sound, it won't be exactly the same twice (particulary 30 years after).


if you're going to talk about photography... i have to pitch in cause i love photography.

these are my opinions of course!!!!

overall i also think film warmth and soul are also super subjective and overrated. especially with today's tools and processes.

you can post process digital to look like film pretty easily. I do it all the time with my dinky point and shoot and people can't tell the difference. It's all about the skill of the photographer.
The only types of film cameras that affect the final product is medium format and Polaroid cameras.

medium format due to the focus falloff of the larger format lens and a higher also the larger negative.

Polaroid cameras are the only real magical camera as people are less intimidated by them so it evokes diff types of emotions from your subject.

Oh and there are also pinhole cameras which are fun to use.

Other than that, on SLR's or rangefinder type cameras its all based on the skills of the photographer and and their charisma or strategies to get the desired emotions or looks from their subjects.

And thats only for portraiture.

For everyday photography of scenes and diff types of landscapes that's all composition and your own unique perspective. Film vs digital in this day and age is the same with post processing techniques and tools.

in the end, i love shooting film cause i enjoy using my leica m3, nikon f2, and olympus xa, along with other various pinhole cameras. I usually bring them on long trips cause i dont need any batteries. only film and my mental light meter.

I only use my real digital camera for commissioned events and portraits.

Lightroom and the VSCO curves gives you a pretty easy start if you're interested to look into that stuff. There's also Mastin Labs presets. In general i shoot underexposed up to 1 stop on both film and digital, but that's my style.

Cheers!!!

WEEEEEEEeeeee


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 Post subject: Re: useful VSTs i've used
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:13 am 
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^ Chromeo is dope! Some of their stuff is a little too pop for me, but they got a good sound. They use a plethora of digital and analog synths, hardware and software. Half of the synths in that room are digital. Some even contain both digital and analog components.

I agree with the OP. This thread was ruined with some non-plugin related non-sense. Another 'anal'og vs digital pissing contest discussion.

It silly to debate the authenticity of a synthesizer's sound. Considering the root word means 'to imitate'. Electrical engineers invented them to imitate real sounds, then some crazy hippies realized you can do all kinds of weird shit with them. Today we have an entire spectrum of different quality synths.

I'm no synth guru, but I've been using instrument plugins since they were first created by Steinburg in the 90's. I don't hear anyone in hear talking about waveforms, oscillators, modulation, or any hardcore synthesis in here. I'm assuming that most people that don't like the sound they are trying to obtain out of a synth plugin, are probably just flipping through preset patches that were made for a genre of music that they don't even make. A little knowledge on what the parameters actually do, goes along way when trying to shape the sound of any synthesizer. I have a lot to learn myself.

Soft synths are going to sound cold compared to most analog synths. How you process that sound makes a big difference on what your end product is. I've taken some pretty cheap sounding soft synths for a bass line and stacked the same note across 3 or 4 octaves and played them in unison, run through a tube saturation plugin, chorus plugin, and a compressor plugin and made it sound 100x fatter than it was. Plus you could hear the bass through tiny smart phone speakers and got comments like, "Damn! that bass is sick!" Most of the heavy synth based music made today is made with soft synths.

There are some sample based virtual instrument plugins out there that sample the real thing with crazy expensive mics. They aren't software modeled plugins, but still plugins.

I have to agree with the OP. A lot of analog synths do have a limited sound palette, that why sometimes the people that own them own a bunch of different ones or they're just a gear whore. I recently sold my volca bass because there's not really any sound I could not make on it with the OP-1. The volca is analog, the OP-1 is digital but sounds way better imo. Sure the volca sounded a little more gritty and the filter was probably better than the one on the OP-1, but it wasn't worth keeping for just that. I have plenty of samplers and plugins if I want add dirt to something.

I also have to agree that owning a vintage analog synth is kinda overrated. Sure, I'd love to own one for the rich sound, but people pay $10,000 for a 1970's synth that is only monophonic! Sure, they can sound like they have multiple voices or multitrack, but polyphony is a big thing to me. I don't want to own anything that is limited to one voice at a time, other than maybe a acoustic drum. Owning a vintage synthesizer is a lot like owning a classic car. If you play it regularly one day something is going to break on it. Repair guys for these things are kinda rare. Parts are also rare. You may have a long wait for the guy to track down parts, they may even have to make a lesser quality part for it. The repair bill may cost a good portion of what you paid for the thing. All while the synth is down, it's just serving as a huge paper weight. Owning a rare instrument is dope, but not always worth it. Hence the invention of plugins.

Can we keep this discussion about plugins? And make a new one about digital vs analog/hardware vs software/warm vs cold? Or if you use the search function at the top of this page, there is probably one archived already.

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