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 Post subject: I need a detailed Vinyl Sim comparison.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:20 am 
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I've got a 404SX, but the OG 404's Vinyl Sim has a much better flutter sound. I want that OG 404 flutter, and I was wondering if the 303, 505, and 555 have the same 404 flutter sound. If their flutter sounds as weak as the 404sx, I don't want them. I like the 555 for the lo-fi compression and hopefully the vinyl sim I'm after. I like the 505 for the different style of sequencing. I like the 303 for the old school lo-fi factor. But in reality I'll probably only purchase 1 more SP. Any have some Vinyl Sim comparison?

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 Post subject: Re: I need a detailed Vinyl Sim comparison.
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:23 am 
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I have the 606. I believe it has similar wow & flutter as the 404 OG and the 303 and 505.

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 Post subject: Re: I need a detailed Vinyl Sim comparison.
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:06 pm 
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It seems like there are 2 types of vinyl sim within the sp line of products.

The more old school units (SP 303, 505, 606) have the slower heavy flutter that sounds more like when you put a thumb softly on a record. This flutter is also more warpy and almost gives a pitch down effect when pushed to the max.

The new school units, (404sx maybe the 555?) have the faster digital flutter that almost sounds more like a vibrato.

I have the 606 and had the 505 before and can confirm it sounds just like the 505 flutter.

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 Post subject: Re: I need a detailed Vinyl Sim comparison.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:50 am 
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The 404sx imo sound too sterile.It lacks the grime and weight of the 303 or 505's vinyl sim.

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 Post subject: Re: I need a detailed Vinyl Sim comparison.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:44 am 
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I know your talking about the Flutter parameter, but one main difference in the VINYL SIM effect on the 404 OG vs the 404sx:

-on the 404 OG, the CNTRL 1 knob changes the amount of compression (CMP)

-on the 404sx, the CNTRL 1 knob changes the frequency response (RNG) (more of a filtering effect)

And I know the 303 VINYL SIM is also similar (if not the same) to the 404 OG. It sounds really nice on the 303.


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 Post subject: Re: I need a detailed Vinyl Sim comparison.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:02 pm 
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404og and 303 pretty much on par execpt the 303 sounds slightly more grittier do to the different machinery inside the two pieces. the 404 sx doesnt have a comp on its vinyl sim like the OG and 303. the 505 is pretty much an upgraded 303.


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 Post subject: Re: I need a detailed Vinyl Sim comparison.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:32 pm 
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i have a 505 and a 606 and the effects sound the same.

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 Post subject: Re: I need a detailed Vinyl Sim comparison.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:40 am 
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Hey dudes,

So I might be just about to buy an 808ex

As I understand it it has the vinyl sim, which is probably the main reason that I want an SP...

I can't seem to find anywhere if the 808 ex vinyl sim his same as the 303 or if it's a newer one...

I would much prefer the old school ready compression vinyl sim...

Can anyone fill me in and what the 808 vinyl sim is like?


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 Post subject: Re: I need a detailed Vinyl Sim comparison.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:09 am 
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I just got a 404 and the vinyl sim to me sounds a shit load better than the 303.
I have never played with it on the 505 but I would assume that is is the same as the 303.

As opposed to using a dumb effect that sounds like everyone else, for $10 you can get a tape deck from the GoodWill and saturate the tape (record hot), sample the beginning of an old record for an original crackle and sample back into your sp.

If you need an effect to create hiphop, it's not hiphop.


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 Post subject: Re: I need a detailed Vinyl Sim comparison.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:25 pm 
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808 has several different vinyl simulation patches saved as default, which you can edit and re-save. The control knobs on most of them are set like Vinyl 33 where Ctrl knobs set to:

C1. Dsk NzTotl
C2. Dsk WF Totl
C3. Dsk Dist
C4. Dsk ScrtNz
C5. Dsk FX Lev
C6. Dsk DryLev

In the back-end you can switch between stereo and mono, fine tune SignalDist, adjust frequency range, disk type (LP, EP and SP), Noise Total, Scratch, Dust, Hiss, W/F total, wow, flutter, Random, FX level and Drylevel.
You can also reassign the control knobs from the default settings listed above to any of the ones listed, plus adjust the knob-sweep ranges.

Other default patches are variations on the LP, EP and SP settings.

Another patch, "Record" has the six Ctrl knobs default set to parameters:
C1. Dsk range (like a filter)
C2. Dsk noise total (hiss and crackle)
C3. WF total (Wow/flutter volume)
C4. Dsk Dist (like signal degradation or worn-out grooves)
C5. Dsk HissNz (self explanatory)
C6. Dsk random (clicks and pops)

The 808 vinyl simulator has no built-in compression like the 303 or 404OG.

But really nice to be able to fine-tune the blends between wet/dry, degradation vs click/pop etc... wow and flutter as separate aspects etc etc etc.

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 Post subject: Re: I need a detailed Vinyl Sim comparison.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Crane wrote:

If you need an effect to create hiphop, it's not hiphop.




Come on man ,you're joking right,..do you seriously believe that ?

Unless you're talking Hip Hop in its absolute purist form, as in one dude cutting up records on two turntables then effects have been used in the creation of Hip Hop recordings in the studio since day one .

Try telling Public Enemy and countless other artists and the producers of the music otherwise.

As much of a douchebag that Bambaata has become to the point where almost no-one wants to even mention the dudes name anymore ,how do you think a record like Planet Rock was made ?

Rappers Delight ,The Message,White Lines ...Rock The Bells...Let The Rhythm Hit Em' Straight Outta Compton...911 Is A Joke.. etcetera, etcetera etcetera.

The list is endless.

All those records were made with utilising multiple effects,clever studio editing and countless effected sounds and samples.

I'm not hating here at all btw.. I just don't understand the logic behind the statement.

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 Post subject: Re: I need a detailed Vinyl Sim comparison.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:39 pm 
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Danswift wrote:
Come on man ,you're joking right,..do you seriously believe that ?


Sorry Dan, that was a broad statement with a bit of sarcasm. I did not mean to generalize effects as a whole.

Yes, using effects is important part of getting a desired sound and maybe it is my ignorance of "vinyl simulation", but I guess I just don't understand the hype of trying to emulate the sound of sampling from vinyl.
As for the compression, saturating tape on the drums and re-sampling is going to give a more warm effect than an algorithm.

again, I did not mean to offend with my statement or generalize effects as a whole.


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 Post subject: Re: I need a detailed Vinyl Sim comparison.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:43 pm 
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Crane wrote:
Danswift wrote:
Come on man ,you're joking right,..do you seriously believe that ?


Sorry Dan, that was a broad statement with a bit of sarcasm. I did not mean to generalize effects as a whole.

Yes, using effects is important part of getting a desired sound and maybe it is my ignorance of "vinyl simulation", but I guess I just don't understand the hype of trying to emulate the sound of sampling from vinyl.
As for the compression, saturating tape on the drums and re-sampling is going to give a more warm effect than an algorithm.

again, I did not mean to offend with my statement or generalize effects as a whole.



Hehe ,no offence at all man...I apologise if I came across as such..I wrote a longer reply to you but the phone rang and I accidentally erased it .

So ,I'll give you my take on Vinyl Sim instead lol.

The 404 OG Vinyl Sim for me personally is a very strange beast ..I only ever use the CTR 1 when I need some extra heavy duty crunch for drums I want to sample but lack punch ..the crackle and flutter controls I never apply at all .

I use it on samples pretty sparingly but sometimes when you apply it to certain sounds it totally transforms them real nicely ,if you add in filters and resample for example you can achieve some cool disintegrating effects that way.

I just like effects in general for the twisting and distorting plus the general sample mangling bizness they can provide in trying to flip the shit out of the things you're sampling ..trying it knock it inside out and create something new, which for me,is the real 5th element of Hip Hop.

I'd have a hundred different guitar pedals if I had the cash and the space hehe ..fire up the filth machines and get experimenting.

All the best to you dude...have fun.

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 Post subject: Re: I need a detailed Vinyl Sim comparison.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:07 am 
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l i f wrote:
808 has several different vinyl simulation patches saved as default, which you can edit and re-save. The control knobs on most of them are set like Vinyl 33 where Ctrl knobs set to:

C1. Dsk NzTotl
C2. Dsk WF Totl
C3. Dsk Dist
C4. Dsk ScrtNz
C5. Dsk FX Lev
C6. Dsk DryLev

In the back-end you can switch between stereo and mono, fine tune SignalDist, adjust frequency range, disk type (LP, EP and SP), Noise Total, Scratch, Dust, Hiss, W/F total, wow, flutter, Random, FX level and Drylevel.
You can also reassign the control knobs from the default settings listed above to any of the ones listed, plus adjust the knob-sweep ranges.

Other default patches are variations on the LP, EP and SP settings.

Another patch, "Record" has the six Ctrl knobs default set to parameters:
C1. Dsk range (like a filter)
C2. Dsk noise total (hiss and crackle)
C3. WF total (Wow/flutter volume)
C4. Dsk Dist (like signal degradation or worn-out grooves)
C5. Dsk HissNz (self explanatory)
C6. Dsk random (clicks and pops)

The 808 vinyl simulator has no built-in compression like the 303 or 404OG.

But really nice to be able to fine-tune the blends between wet/dry, degradation vs click/pop etc... wow and flutter as separate aspects etc etc etc.


---

Thanks for the detailed response. I've never had an SP, or used a vinyl sim myself. But I love the sound when used judiciously. I'm pretty bummed at the lack of compression, but good news about tweakability... I might try to flip my 808, which I got at a nice price and go for a 303 or 404og, as rly I just want a compact & high quality vinyl sim... I have and op1, Ableton and other stuff for sequencing and such... I notice in your gear list that you have the 808 and the 303, etc. Which do you like best? Or do you have favourites for different applications?

Thanks again.


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 Post subject: Re: I need a detailed Vinyl Sim comparison.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:35 am 
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If forced to choose between the 808 and 303, I would choose the 808 in a heartbeat.

Sure the 808 vinyl SIM isn't paired with a compressor, but it has several compression patches to choose from which imo are superior to the stock compressors I have on my 555, 303 and 404sx.

Resample.

But no-one is asking me to get rid of any gear and so I have all the machines chained in a loop. Most of my chopping happens on 808 and 555, bouncing/mixing on the 303, structure/performance/mastering on the 404. I find I use the 303 vinyl comp quite a bit, mostly with ctrl 1 at 12 o'clock and the other two on minimum..

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