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 Post subject: I think I hate midi/need studio help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:45 pm 
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So I come from multi-track recording by layering sounds on top of each other rather sloppily (Mostly coming from a rock background, although I made beats way back in the day with acid pro). I have been wanting to get back into the beats game (more like boards of canada stuff) and play live. So I bought a bunch of midi cables to connect my stuff.

I have an esq-1, bass station II, sp-404sx, and microsampler. I finally connected it all today to run off the clock of my esq-1. I don't know if I'm just not used to the workflow or I hate sequencing, but Im finding everything very unintuitive.

So I guess my question here is, should I just go back to multi-track recording on my computer, without worrying about clock and all that, or learn to sequence and do midi and shit. What would you do with my setup if you wanted to make BoC stuff?

Thanks for any help!

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 Post subject: Re: I think I hate midi/need studio help
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:38 pm 
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do you use k7 multitrack?
multitrack on K7 is great help to achieve boc sound, i use a midiman smartsync to produce fsk signals to go in sync with the midi+k7 world, it could be a cool compromise for you

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 Post subject: Re: I think I hate midi/need studio help
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:15 am 
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ellaguru wrote:
do you use k7 multitrack?
multitrack on K7 is great help to achieve boc sound, i use a midiman smartsync to produce fsk signals to go in sync with the midi+k7 world, it could be a cool compromise for you


I don't know what that is, but it sounds cool. I just use either a zoom R8 multitrack or Reaper on my computer. I

guess my question is do you guys use sequencers much? I think my main problem is that I am very new to them. I even have an RS7000 but I haven't used it all that much yet. I am trying to get my head around sequencing on the esq-1, but it just seems less hassle to multitrack record stuff. But I would like to get into sequencing some because I know it can help add variety into the sound, and its pretty much needed for live shows I think.

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 Post subject: Re: I think I hate midi/need studio help
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:04 am 
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i have an RS7000 to but didnt use it since 3 years, damn...
well, to begin sequencing try to experiment with midi...do the microsamplers got midi out? i assume yes, so start from it, because fom what i remember this machine can do sequences (and patterns) so you -maybe- can send midi notes to the other machines

midi-Musical Instrument Digital Interface-: you can have midi clock to sync start-stop of 2 or more machines; midi notes, means that tapping a note from one machine can be received from another one connected via midi; midi channels: those are the channels by wich machines can communicate

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 Post subject: Re: I think I hate midi/need studio help
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:07 pm 
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Thanks man. Yeah I understand what it is and kind of how to get it all working on channels and everything. I just don't see the advantage of it yet other than having patterns play in sync, which seems mostly good for techno and dance music. I know getting creative with it is key, I just need to practice like you said.

That's why I got the esq-1 sending clock instead of the RS, seems much easier at the moment. Right now though I just rock the sp and microsampler. Resampling and bouncing shit from one machine to the other. Throw that on the computer and record synth and stuff over it.

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 Post subject: Re: I think I hate midi/need studio help
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:25 pm 
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an alternative way wich i learnt from the SPs is to work by resampling loops of patterns by performances of pads and combining them live, without any sequencer

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 Post subject: Re: I think I hate midi/need studio help
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:52 am 
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Auditor wrote:
Thanks man. Yeah I understand what it is and kind of how to get it all working on channels and everything. I just don't see the advantage of it yet other than having patterns play in sync, which seems mostly good for techno and dance music. I know getting creative with it is key, I just need to practice like you said.

That's why I got the esq-1 sending clock instead of the RS, seems much easier at the moment. Right now though I just rock the sp and microsampler. Resampling and bouncing shit from one machine to the other. Throw that on the computer and record synth and stuff over it.

That is probably your best bet to make the tunes that you want to make. Having all your kit synced up and running at the same time really only is for live jams these days. You have much more control and creative power recoring the separate sounds from your machines into a sampler or a computer programme and putting it all together that way. Good luck


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 Post subject: Re: I think I hate midi/need studio help
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:02 am 
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Nosmo King wrote:
Auditor wrote:
Thanks man. Yeah I understand what it is and kind of how to get it all working on channels and everything. I just don't see the advantage of it yet other than having patterns play in sync, which seems mostly good for techno and dance music. I know getting creative with it is key, I just need to practice like you said.

That's why I got the esq-1 sending clock instead of the RS, seems much easier at the moment. Right now though I just rock the sp and microsampler. Resampling and bouncing shit from one machine to the other. Throw that on the computer and record synth and stuff over it.

That is probably your best bet to make the tunes that you want to make. Having all your kit synced up and running at the same time really only is for live jams these days. You have much more control and creative power recoring the separate sounds from your machines into a sampler or a computer programme and putting it all together that way. Good luck


This is what I figured and is actually a big relief. I'll just worry about syncing stuff when/if I get to playing live

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 Post subject: Re: I think I hate midi/need studio help
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:31 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA
Quote:
I guess my question is do you guys use sequencers much? I think my main problem is that I am very new to them. I even have an RS7000 but I haven't used it all that much yet. I am trying to get my head around sequencing on the esq-1, but it just seems less hassle to multitrack record stuff. But I would like to get into sequencing some because I know it can help add variety into the sound, and its pretty much needed for live shows I think.


If you're making sample based beats, advanced uses of MIDI may not be necessary. I've used audio for quite a while and just recently became more fluent with MIDI but i still have a long way to go. From what I've seen, MIDI allows a number of advantages:

-MIDI can help you play a musical instrument part that you couldn't play on your own. You can program a sequencer like the RS7000 to play a piano part that you couldn't play, or a drum beat that you couldn't tap out with your fingers.

-MIDI triggers instruments live. This obviously helps in live performance/jamming scenarios but also allows you to add real time effects and knob twists to things as they are playing back. If you're tapping your sampler into a multi-track recorder, you may not be able to simultaneously turn other knobs that could add to your track. Also, if you construct your music with MIDI, it will be easier to take your setup mobile and play live if you ever get there instead of relying on playing audio backing tracks in a live setting.

-MIDI can give you flexibility with your final sound and the directions you can go in your mix. You can try different instruments/samples/drum sounds by swapping them out, hearing the pattern with different sample truncate points, effects, etc... without changing the beat you've made. It lets you have more options you can experiment with down the road.

-MIDI sequencers can also help you get creative and can be a source of inspiration themselves. Depending on the sequencer, you may be able to transpose parts you've played to different keys, apply groove templates, shuffle, or humanizing feel to drum hits, etc... Playing a sequencer like we all play with our Roland sp's can create new inspiring paths you can go down for your track.


These are all just some ideas and may not be relevant for what you're trying to do with your own music. That RS7000 sequencer is a beast though if you ever want to make the plunge.
-


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 Post subject: Re: I think I hate midi/need studio help
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:21 pm 
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Hey Chess, I really appreciate the breakdown. I am finally kind of getting my head around it all. I had a few sessions with the SP and the Microsampler slaved to the esq and it was kinda dope. Although lately i've been fuckin around with the Dakim delay trick and its blowing my mind.

I happened to sell the RS7000 just yesterday. While I know it's a beast, I just don't have much time to learn a completely new instrument right now. Can anyone suggest a different sequencer that is relatively inexpensive and easier to learn? I was looking at a tr-8, but I have heard mixed reviews about the sequencer side of it. I also don't plan on using many factory drum sounds, as I prefer samples.

Was also looking at the electribe sampler but its kind of expensive and many people don't seem to like it.

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 Post subject: Re: I think I hate midi/need studio help
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:33 pm 
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Auditor wrote:
...lately i've been fuckin around with the Dakim delay trick and its blowing my mind.

I happened to sell the RS7000 just yesterday. While I know it's a beast, I just don't have much time to learn a completely new instrument right now. Can anyone suggest a different sequencer that is relatively inexpensive and easier to learn? I was looking at a tr-8, but I have heard mixed reviews about the sequencer side of it...


Good looking out. That Dakim Delay trick looks dope. I'm definitely going to experiment with that tonight when I get home.

Sadly, hardware sequencers are sort of becoming a thing of the past. There are a few new additions like the Squarp Pyramid and Cirklon but those are very expensive.


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 Post subject: Re: I think I hate midi/need studio help
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:09 pm 
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I know, it is sad. I'm trying to stay away from the computer as much as possible because I stare at a screen eight hours a day for work. I'm thinking of getting an old EMX-1 or something because it looks kind of like a simpler RS7000

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 Post subject: Re: I think I hate midi/need studio help
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:55 pm 
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Yeah I'm in the same boat. I look at a computer a lot throughout the day and so I try to stick to hardware as much as possible, which isn't hard because my computer kind of sucks anyways.

As for a hardware sequencer, if you're looking for drum sequencing capabilities so you can trigger an SP, check this one out:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BeatStepPro

If you're looking for more advanced midi sequencing that can send advanced piano parts to an electronic instrument, piano roll style editing, has a real time linear record mode like you'd find in a DAW sequencer, you might want to look at this on the cheap side:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-QY100-Mu ... SwwbdWMXXK

Or this one on the more expensive side:

http://squarp.net/

I ordered a Squarp Pyramid and it will be here in March sometime. :D


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 Post subject: Re: I think I hate midi/need studio help
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:33 am 
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Chess wrote:

If you're looking for more advanced midi sequencing that can send advanced piano parts to an electronic instrument, piano roll style editing, has a real time linear record mode like you'd find in a DAW sequencer, you might want to look at this on the cheap side:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-QY100-Mu ... SwwbdWMXXK


cool
once i had a qy70 but at the time i didnt knew many things about midi so i sold it also because the screen went broken on an damn accident.
very cute machine
now from time to time i use to sequence the super cool st224 with a yamaha an200
i bought a dr660 to try to understand how the hell squarepusher done those mad sequencing in the mid 90s with that.
another cheap sequencer

@Auditor
how is the esq-1? i got the asrx and i like how this beast sounds...in general, all ensoniqs sound very nice...

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 Post subject: Re: I think I hate midi/need studio help
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:46 pm 
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[/quote]
@Auditor
how is the esq-1? i got the asrx and i like how this beast sounds...in general, all ensoniqs sound very nice...[/quote]


The esq is my baby. I got if for $300 and learned synthesis with it (sort of). It sounds great especially if you pair it with delay + reverb pedals. The sequencer is insanely easy to use. Only downside is that you can't really modulate stuff with it, but if its for the studio that doesn't really matter. I love it.

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