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 Post subject: Sample BPM when looping samples over patterns.
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:20 pm 
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I make a loop in my DAW(logic) at 88 bpm.
Put the loop on my SD card, import it.
I press the pad, and the bpm displayed on the 404 says 65... not 88
I loop the sample. I double check with a metronome, it's at 88bpm.
If I change the bpm of the sample from 65 to 88(time/bpm), it time stretches it and it winds up being very not 88bpm. If I put it back at 65, it loops fine at 88 again.
I can import another loop also at 88, and it'll say 121 or something. It's not always 65.
I sequence a drum pattern at 88bpm, play the loop over it, and it loops fine (mostly).

I can somewhat work around this by memorizing or writing down which loop is at which tempo, but it would be great to select at loop that loops at 88 bpm, see 88 on the SP screen, and know the 88 bpm would loop cleanly.

I have also messed with sequencing the loop by quantizing it at the beginning of a sequence, but the sample only plays every other time because the stop and start triggers of the sequencer overlap. If I copy the loop onto another pad then it works, but it feels like a waste of pad space and memory.

I usually sequence my sp on my beatstep to have other instruments and a looper pedal synched to midi. It makes no difference if the drum pattern is sequenced on the s.p. or on my beatstepPro.


Really my only question in this is
why does the sp say 65bpm when a sample loops at 88?

Halp.


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 Post subject: Re: Sample BPM when looping samples over patterns.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:20 am 
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The SP has its own way of counting the BPM, it's not the same as you'd expect. Takes the overall length of the track and divides it in addition to counting the peaks /hits /breaks of your sample and dividing it as well.
Bottom line is, that's just the way it is, and you'll have to work your way around it.
It will probably never be the same as on your DAW, though I had a few samples showing the BPM exactly as on my DAW, but don't hold your breath.
So, you either resample, or you meticulously cut the samples on your DAW, export them to SD card, and ignore the BPM counter on the SP

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 Post subject: Re: Sample BPM when looping samples over patterns.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:35 am 
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i know a fix...
but the actual problem is that u cant trust what ur 404 reads.
sometimes even the "fix" i do doest not work.
but most of the time it does.
first cut in half the bpm that the sp reads, if says 114, u turn the knob so it reads it like 57. then start trimming from the end for a full 30.
now, in most times it will read ur loops true bpm. if it doesnt then good luck.
then change back to ur original end point and u r DONE! 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Sample BPM when looping samples over patterns.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:46 am 
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It.sOk knows his sp!
Too be honest, I've never even looked into if it's possible to match the bpm on the screen with the samples.... I ignore the screen....
Go by feel.
You become a "master of chop" working with sp's :) It gets easier & easier, soon you'll be able to loop seamlessly & chop with precision.
I get it if you're comin from a daw tho, you expect small things like that to be there........ you just gotta work with sp's a little different. I'm sure you've noticed that


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 Post subject: Re: Sample BPM when looping samples over patterns.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:34 am 
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i got an sp404og for like 5 years

In the beginning i knew nothing about the sp and its culture, got to it by a sacred calling of laziness and depression of the DAW and by an instinctual and reflexive sense to chose something small and comfortable for my limited pocket
its so limited that........ challenges the limits the 404 seq has. u know...and so
my shishio instructed me to train by the manual, and then abandoned me to chase after some geisha
and so i did...
i read it countless times till my eyes were dry as a raw synthesized drum break
then i had it right by my side for all my sp adventures
and found ways to counter the obstacles in my way
now as a ronin roaming the frequencies and stereofields
i try to find purpose in using my spskillz for myself and not for my clan, that abandoned music :twisted: 8)
now i make music only in the box and got a minibrute too, that i cant really grasp and take advantage of... :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Sample BPM when looping samples over patterns.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 3:05 pm 
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Hehehe, that's awesome :lol:
& yea, when you truly want to know how something works, read the manual! I haven't read the manual for my sp in a few years...... I'm sure there are a few more tricks I could learn. I do read thru the forum tho, learned a lot from that as well. You def taught me a few things!


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 Post subject: Re: Sample BPM when looping samples over patterns.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 5:53 pm 
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I'm definitely a read the manual guy. Nowhere does it say the sample bpm is based on peak detection. The manual is kinda surface level.
I've been using the sp for over a year and i've got real slick at making beats in the box. Got a beat tape coming out soon of beats I made using only my phone and the sp.
I run into trouble when I want to interface the sp with the rest of my live-show set-up. (beatstep, looper pedal, synths, midi clock stuff) I guess i'm just butting up against the limitations of the device and my own bpm ocd.


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 Post subject: Re: Sample BPM when looping samples over patterns.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:13 pm 
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Oh yea, I bet there's a lot missing from the manual, which is why forums are a great place for info too.

Do you have a mixer? You listed some good stuff, I bet you could get a good workflow goin tryin different stuff out. I haven't transferred full loops to the sp yet, but I get using different gear for what it does best (for example Chopin on an sp isn't the easiest). Writing down the bpm is a good idea too.....& just work on a few beats at a time. Or It.sOk's trick sounds interesting :)


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 Post subject: Re: Sample BPM when looping samples over patterns.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:01 am 
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ye the forums are a great help... even if u know some tricks or u got all that manual knowledge, its still hard to put order into the 404chaos of disorganised samples and workarounds. good thing in here is that ur always reminded that there is something more in that sp u got there 8) 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Sample BPM when looping samples over patterns.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:47 pm 
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workaround (no import from sd-card):

record the loops straight to the sp-404.

-before recording, make sure you turn on AUTO REC (Hold down the [FUNC] button and press the pad [4] AUTO TRIG LEVEL - possible on OG too when pressing CANCEL+REC)
-when you're ready to sample press REC and then BPM
-dial in the BPM of the loop you want i.E. 88
-Hit record on SP, hit play on computer
-stop recording (quickly) after the loops is finished and voila. doesn't work perfect all the time, but mostly it'll do the job

it's page 25/26 in the manual by the way :mrgreen:

hope this helps you a bit, have fun!

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