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 Post subject: The Legend of DR-202 MIDI (SP-202/SP-303)
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:29 pm 
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I'm writing this out of a lack of documentation on how to use DR-202 MIDI OUT with either an SP-202 or SP-303. Hope it helps somebody. :D

First off, a DR-202 is a really slept on machine for what it is. It has three MIDI channels (DRUM, BASS, and EXT). All of them can be used for MIDI, but this writing only covers super basic EXT setup to the SP-202/303.

In the MIDI menu, The DR-202 comes set with DRUM=1, BASS=2, EXT=3. That's fine. You need to make sure MIDI CONTROL CHG SW=ON. On your sampler, press and hold 3 while turning it on (This will set the MIDI channel to 3).

Here's where the samplers are different: For the SP-202, to trigger samples the DR-202 kit setting has to be set to OCTAVE=7 (press KIT). For the SP-303, the kit setting is OCTAVE=2. Because of this as well as a number of other idiosyncrasies, the two are very different when combined with the DR-202, especially in terms of workflow.

The biggest difference between the samplers for me personally is that the SP-303 kills the source line when you perform an operation (del, trc, rec) whereas the SP-202 source stays live during operations (in my particular case, the source actually is the DR-202 itself).

Another sick thing I found about either combination with a DR-202 is that if you use it to sequence, it stops the situation where the sampler clock slips (even between odd length samples). That said, I know a lot of SP-life is about the fingerpainting, mad respects to SP-only style, but this secret technique is explained by a mysterious picture in the DR-202 manual... and indeed, it can be said that there are many ways to rock a house. :mrgreen:


Attachments:
SPDRmanual.jpg
SPDRmanual.jpg [ 91.71 KiB | Viewed 3052 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of DR-202 MIDI (SP-202/SP-303)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:42 am 
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*Also, it's worth mentioning that you can change the EXT=3 MIDI setting on the DR-202 to a lower channel. This should scoot down the keymap (and subsequently where to set OCTAVE= in the KIT to get the MIDI to answer but it doesn't. :oops:

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Last edited by 伏藏龍 on Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of DR-202 MIDI (SP-202/SP-303)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 8:14 am 
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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of DR-202 MIDI (SP-202/SP-303)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:07 am 
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thanks! But do you know how to Change the Effects on the SP-202 with the knobs of the DR-202 ??? In the Manual it says that this is possible but i don't know how to get it to work... even Roland Support couldn't help me.

but it's there in the Manual... so i think it should be possible.

DR+SP-202 is a dreamteam

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of DR-202 MIDI (SP-202/SP-303)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:40 pm 
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I agree that it ought to be possible (as stated in the manual) but I have yet to find a combination of settings by changing channels or kit octaves that works for the SP-202 (not for lack of effort). The SP-303 knobs worked right away with no additional tweaks other than matching the channels to the DR-202, but same for me. :?

Another idiosyncratic thing I've found is that on the SP-202, since the octave on the DR-202 has to be set to 7 [there's no 8] and there are 13 keys on the DR-202 and 16 pads on the SP-202, I haven't found a way to trigger 6, 7, & 8 on Bank B with just the DR-202.

When/if I find a way around those two things, I'll post 'em up. Neither of those things occur with the SP-303, that all worked off the rip, first try (on the SP-303, you can play 6, 7, 8 on Bank B by cranking the octave to 3 on the kit).

At some point this week [I've got a weekly on Tuesdays, so I'm hemmed up for tonight and tomorrow night] I'm gonna take the SP-202 to the lab and jack it into a higher capability MIDI rig, which ought to be revealing about the true form of the SP-202 keymap.

It'd be super dope for the DR-202 sequencer to remember effects and assignments even after switching off the SP-202.

I'll let you guys know what I find out in a couple of days (unless somebody beats me to it). :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of DR-202 MIDI (SP-202/SP-303)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:39 pm 
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Been grinding on this some more.
Just for the lulz I called Roland US which, of course, didn't get anywhere.

The DR-202_OM (pg.62) says:
About the SP-202: This is one of the samplers in the BOSS Dr. Series. When playing back or conducting simple sampling (recording) using the included CD, a record, microphone, or other input, you can control filters, time stretch, and other parameters with the DR-202's knobs.


MIDI Implementation Charts:
SP-202: Jun. 28, 1995 (pg. 43)
DR-202: Jun. 01, 1998 (pg. 88)
SP-303: Jan. 10, 2001 (pg. 72)
(*for the SP-303, I found this- which is additional MIDI implementation [attaching a copy also])
https://cms.roland.co.uk/assets/media/pdf/SP-303_MI.pdf :shock:

What's depressing is that the SP-202 MIDI Implementation chart has an 'x' under Control Change\Recognized contradictory to what the DR-202 manual says. I tested with MIDI-OX and the DR-202 does, in fact, send MIDI CC: over the EFFECTS knobs. REALTIME MODIFY does not (those are NPRN). Reverb DATA1 is 5B NOTE G, Flanger is 5D NOTE A. The point here is that the DR-202 definitely talks.

The SP-202 MIDI Implementation chart is a bummer but the SP-303_MI document is encouraging. Either the DR-202 manual is wrong or the SP-202 MIDI Implementation chart is wrong (or incomplete). It could be both, but not sure yet- it's not impossible, but unlikely.

I'm gonna keep choppin' on this but since the SP-202 can only listen, I'll have to go hard with the MIDI and run it from one end to the other. This will take a little time to finish. It could be the case that only a certain channel (or channels) will listen to the knobs and not others. Another possibility (which I would hate most) would be if there were differences in SP-202's at a firmware level; again, unlikely but a total showstopper if so.

More to come-


Attachments:
File comment: SP-303 Midi Implementation (separate document from OM)
SP-303_MI.pdf [37.36 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of DR-202 MIDI (SP-202/SP-303)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:33 pm 
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You're the (midi) man! Thanks for trying and googling and writing all this down... :!:

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of DR-202 MIDI (SP-202/SP-303)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:13 am 
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so , when you guys crack the code, will it then be possible to send automated knob motionto the sp 202 ? or only live?


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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of DR-202 MIDI (SP-202/SP-303)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:06 am 
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I still haven't had quality time to sit down and run all 16 channels on all octaves on the DR-202 (had some drama pop off and haven't had the alone time yet) but to answer the question, a normal MIDI sequencer ought to but the DR-202 sequencer might or might not. I have to admit I've never tried.

The test for it would be to record on the DR-202 and jog Reverb and Flange. If it records that (and gives you that live set wrecking extra R-1 measure) then it ought to. If it doesn't, then maybe not off of the DR-202. Since it sends CC I'd expect that a sequencer would be able to control flange and reverb, but I can't say for sure about the DR-202 sequencer in specific.

I'll try and get the exploratory surgery done sometime this week and post up.

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of DR-202 MIDI (SP-202/SP-303)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:33 pm 
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I rolled all 16 channels and couldn't find a combo that made the knobs work (all MIDI SYNC settings tested too). :cry:

The DR-202 doesn't sequence REV/DLY or FLANGER. This doesn't mean a DAW or other sequencer wouldn't though.

My guess on it is that either it's wrong in the manual or there was a firmware change somewhere along the line. All I know for sure is that serial BX71386 doesn't want to get knobby with it. Unfortunately the SP-202 MIDI Implementation Chart is looking correct.

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of DR-202 MIDI (SP-202/SP-303)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:43 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of DR-202 MIDI (SP-202/SP-303)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:27 pm 
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I got an SP-505 and tried to slave it to DR-202.

As much as I hate to say it, this configuration was more disappointing than the non-matching MIDI implementations between the DR-202 and SP-202 (but much less of a conspiracy).

The SP-505 slays. No question. What it lacks is more than made up for, but it's inferior to every other SP tested so far in that the DR-202 can only control the first two banks on the SP-505, which are factory drum machine sounds (and not very good ones imho). :cry: Other than that, the DR-202 can control SP-505 Start/Stop and BPM.

Also, Roland/Boss published a document for the SP-505 called 'Sampler Compatibility Guide'. This is a short list of devices that should work that does not include the DR-202.

The SP-505 does have a MIDI OUT. I have not tried to go the other way yet and enslave the DR-202 to the SP-505. I'll post up what that acts like when I can.

Personally, I am really feeling the SP-505. My short-term solution has been to sample the DR-202, then PITCH and CHOP. I'm going to keep digging on this and putting up what I can find. DR-202 is hard. It's one of these boxes where 80% of any dial sounds like garbage, 98% of the sounds are totally unusable (set all RESONANCE to zero, that knob should be renamed WACK), but the sequencers (there are 3), sine science, MIDI, and 808 doom (with DECAY and CUTOFF) are straight official and sound rugged when combined with some SP-202 chops. Anyway, more to come...

I'm sure whoever developed it's operating system was fired.

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Last edited by 伏藏龍 on Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of DR-202 MIDI (SP-202/SP-303)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:53 am 
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Umm yes! The 505 can monitor live signals and you can play along on the pads, even resample the incoming signal with your samples on top if you like.

The EXT SOURCE button is your ticket to freedom.

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of DR-202 MIDI (SP-202/SP-303)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:22 am 
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Ill Green: You're so totally right bruv. DURP! :mrgreen: I chopped that bit out of the post for dudes in the future, but good catch man. *above I said something wrong overlooking EXT SOURCE. Peace man, thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of DR-202 MIDI (SP-202/SP-303)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:13 pm 
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It's true that the DR-202 Midi implementation is rubbish. Both the SP-505 and the DR-202 have MIDI IN and MIDI OUT, there's even a MIDI THRU setting somewhere in the DR, but in reality, it's impossible to make these 2 boxes send a stupid MIDI Start/stop signal through, they have to be either at the beginning or the end of the chain, not in the middle.

That said, EXT SOURCE is really the way to go. Since I use the SP-505 distortion effect on the EXT SOURCE pad (coming from the DR-202) I have recreated all the marvelous hard techno sounds of my youth, with big fat gabber kicks and screaming hats...
DR+SP=What a combo!


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