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 Post subject: Yamaha RS7000: First Thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:39 am 
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So, I've finally learned to use a little bit of everything on this machine so I can give my first impressions. Just keep in mind I haven't spent so much time with it that I've made anything complete, though.

Sounds:

Internally, the sounds aren't that bad. They're definitely a good selection of fall backs or even building blocks for new ones if you resample. With all of the options to use filters, track eq, effects, pitch/amp/filter envelopes, etc., you have plenty of options to shape the in-built sounds into shit you've never heard before. Again, coupled with the resampler to keep that sound on tap and further destroy, etc, it's got the depth that all resampling units have plus nice internal building blocks so you never have to resort to records or mics just to get some noise going. In terms of the overall character of the RS7k, it's got a nice OG sound. It's somewhere between what you'd expect the 404 and the 404sx to sound like dirt-wise, but it's bit crusher is the best i've ever heard on any piece of gear or software. You can use it's settings to mimic specific hardware samplers and sampling playback chips of consoles...you can even get that really nice smooth sound the nes makes out of it's samples. Very fun to experiment with to get new character out of your samples.

EFFECTS:

The effects are nice. There's basically 4 effects 'units': a delay send, a reverb send, a multi fx send and a master mix multifx unit. The multifx unit has all the stuff not covered by the stock delay and reverb units such as compressors, distortions, etc. including special delay and reverb settings that are more experimental than the default modes in the dedicated units. The one drawback is that you cannot change the in/out routing that I have found. The default setting is each effect is it's own send signal out to the master. So you cannot stack them into one super effect that you can apply to specific tracks, You have to include the master fx as part of the super effect and use it on all tracks by default. It's not a huge deal, but it kinda limits the scope of the experimentation you can do.

SEQUENCER:

To claim the sequencer as nothing short of possibly holding the title of 'king of live MIDI fuckery of any software or hardware sequencer' might not be too far fetched. To be fair, I haven't really bothered keeping up with newer versions of software or even the new DAWs coming out, but in the stuff I've played with, I've never seen a section of knobs that quite literally should be called "MIDI MUTATION AND MUTILATION" before. Essentially, if you think in software terms, they're sort of like timestretch/shrink, shuffle (to the point of 100% complete quarter note forward or backward), time shift forwards and backwards up to one full measure, etc. And whatever you do with those knobs can be instantly 'saved' to whatever track you're doing this to...then you can use all that stuff again and keep 'resampling' the MIDI in this way. Very fun to just mess with.
Other than that, the live stuff you can do on this is quite extensive and I won't get too much into it, but just imagine anything adobe live claims it's best at and rs7k likely has a dedicated face button or knob for that. And funnily enough, if it doesn't but the rs7k can actually perform that fuction, you can remap all the buttons internally. WTF. What seems to be the strength of the sequencer is the immediacy and I think it's versitility because you can treat it like a linear sequencer, like one like tape track, or you can treat it more like a digital sequencer, like you're working with clips and even style of sequencing, you can go all 303 style sequencer, live recording or go into this tracker-like interface for editing note data. THere's also crazy bizarre features you can do like use one clip's play style to arpaggiate your chords. I haven't tried it, but it sounds dope.

SAMPLING:

I finally got around to really sampling and played around with it and I have to say it's pretty straight forward and flexible. It seems to extend out into midi somehow, like I think you can hit keys or something while it's recording to split, but I haven't figured it out. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it talks in the manual about recreating the chop midi playback on the track at the same time it samples. At any rate, the only thing it seems to be missing is mute groups. Otherwise, you can kinda 404 this thing with the pads or whatever. What's also nice is you ccan select local or global samples...so like your favorite drum loops, you can save as global samples that are shared across sections and patterns or local where it's only in the current pattern. It's pretty nice if you're building a performance over series of sessions or just want a nice starting point that you can keep adding easily to.

OVERALL:

I bought my for $300USD and I'd say that's a really good price for what you get, which could be the last box you ever buy..it feels that good in terms of a sampler, especially with the full 64MB expansion that is on the one I have. My biggest complaints are 1.) There's no on board internal memory...you have to load up your session everytime you turn the thing on, which is a shame because it's amount of data you can play with is a lot that you'll be building on over several (hundred) sessions and this one extra before and after seems like it couldv'e been resolved with just a little bit of onboard storage as the 404 handles it along with the memory card. A minor gripe related to this is it doesn't save the master effect in there...wut?! and 2.) It's really big. REALLY big. If anyone's been around a tascam 424 or a vs880, it's about that size, so you're not going to be moving it anywhere.

Keep in mind, I'm still discovering it. If it were a girlfriend and I were to describe our sex life, I'd say we made out a couple of times but that's it.

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha RS7000: First Thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:02 pm 
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hseiken wrote:
SAMPLING:

I finally got around to really sampling and played around with it and I have to say it's pretty straight forward and flexible. It seems to extend out into midi somehow, like I think you can hit keys or something while it's recording to split, but I haven't figured it out. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it talks in the manual about recreating the chop midi playback on the track at the same time it samples. At any rate, the only thing it seems to be missing is mute groups. Otherwise, you can kinda 404 this thing with the pads or whatever. What's also nice is you ccan select local or global samples...so like your favorite drum loops, you can save as global samples that are shared across sections and patterns or local where it's only in the current pattern. It's pretty nice if you're building a performance over series of sessions or just want a nice starting point that you can keep adding easily to.

i didn't tried the RS since one year or something, but still its sampling approach and the way samples are treated and then saved, makes me someway scared of this machine. i'm not scared by it's dimension (i got also an mc909 and an asrx, so...), but something about its SAMPLING argument makes me cold about this machine...
other than this, i studied a bit its sequencer and it seems a BEAST.
i must also say that i paied it 250euro, so i cannot complaint more...

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha RS7000: First Thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:49 pm 
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Well the sampling works in 2 main ways:

1.) As a multitrack recorder
2.) As a traditional sampler with both drum pad mode (KIT) and melodic mode (turntable pitch)

If you record as multitrack recorder, then you play the track and hit record where you want your sample to be...for instance, if you wanted live guitar, you could play it over the track and it will act like a tape player and add in the note in the track where you hit record so that the timing is replicated when you hit play again. If you were in this mode, then yes, the sampler behaves unexpectedly. Even when doing multiple samples in single instrument, it's super quick save for the fact that it boots you out to the pattern menu after you record each sample, though. It is nice that if you beat chop it based on transients, that it recreates that midi to replay the chops back perfectly if you wish when you slice.

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha RS7000: First Thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:01 pm 
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cool, at last a simple explaination of how sampling is working on the RS, i did not found that simple for me what is written on the manual
thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha RS7000: First Thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:38 am 
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If you try it again, set sampling mode (first time you hit the sampler button) to KIT I think...basically anything that doesn't say "+SEQ" and you'll be in regular sampler mode. Everything else will record the act of pushing record as a MIDI event that triggers the recording itself. It's nice that once you set the mode, then you dont' have to set it again when you record chops on one sampler file, you just have to change which key the sample will be recorded to.

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha RS7000: First Thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:56 pm 
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Now that I've been using it a bit, here's my new thoughts on the RS7000's workflow complete with nags...

First, I should reveal how I'm using it, which is as a workstation. I have an Alesis Micron hooked up both audio and MIDI. What this allows me to do is use the keyboard to play parts/drums with velocity on the RS to use it's internal sounds, but I can also use the RS to control the micron via MIDI and route the audio right back into the system to use it's internal effects. I haven't actually needed to to this yet, as I tend to use the multitrack recording features to record the micron just being played by me live with no quantize.


SOUND: Now that I've made a few tracks with it and had more time listening to it, it's VERY very bassy and is actually kind of hard to make sound 'sparkly'. It's not muddy really, but it has same issues I had with ESX for a long time which was getting a characteristic 'smacky modern' sound out of it. I haven't quite figured out what I need to do just yet which is strange because of the fact that every track has a 2 band parametric eq (high shelf/low shelf with adjustable frequency and q for each). Even using the master multi-band compressor's high knob seems to bring out 'stinging' highs, not 'sparkly' ones.

INSTRUMENTS: There's actually every 'classic' sound you could want on this machine. However, they're all classic, nothing modern feeling, so it requires finnesse/effects/resampling to get newer sounds, but it's completely possible. The synth section is not really a synth but more or less just simple collections of waveforms and you just run the general filter section on them. This is usable for most people and a lot of cats probably wouldn't need anything more, but I found the FM instruments didn't have enough tweakability. As well, I find the most of the filters on the RS to be...'easy going' and not aggressive at all. This means that anytime you want to push the filter, it's going to max out before you're hitting the red line.

SAMPLING: Sampling and chopping on this guy is starting to feel more and more like the 505. It has many of the same type of interfaces and features. The more I sample on it, the more comfortable and 2nd nature it becomes. However, the instruction manual is arranged quite badly when trying to look up minor things that separate it from other samplers and this is because of the fact it has multiple modes. I talked about using it as a multitrack DAW before, but I'd like comment a bit on using it as a regular sampler, chopping up stuff: It's fucking awesome, but it's SLOOOOOW. Expect 505 slowness when you're beat slicing a longer passage of music. I beat sliced a 10 second clip into 8th notes and it took just shy of 3 minutes. Have a gameboy near by when editing samples is all I gotta say. However, the amount of ways you can cut up samples is good enough for any purpose. Even beat slicing you can mix and match 'exact timing' and 'transients'...so it's sorta of how ESX handles slicing, if you've ever delved deeply into that, but unlike ESX, you can go full transient or full quantize cuts. As far as I know, I haven't found any pitch shifting. HOwever, it has useful things in place of proper grain pitch shifting, including auto creating your cuts into your pattern's MIDI to recreate it perfectly in the time span you tell it to. So if you tell it your sample is 4 measures long and it cuts it into 20 slices, it will put those slices up on your pattern so as to play back perfectly if you set your machine's tempo to the tempo of the sample. This also feeds into the insta-remix option and is great for live fuckery. Think sort of like a miniture OCTATRACK except without live looper/recorder. Cool shiz.

SEQUENCING: To be honest, I still have yet to use the pattern chain function or song function. I feel like they're there for people who like to make songs more structured with many pieces to rearrange. I personally like linear recording, where there's no patterns, you just riff from start of song to end of song and the pattern mode is perfectly fine for this since you can make a pattern up to 99 measures and if you leave quantize off, it operates exactly when you do this on a roland sampler...it just becomes a macro playback of your performance. However, i like to do some quantizing, so I generally record at the BPM the song is at, but I've never run into an end of a pattern. That said, I also haven't recorded a pattern longer than 32 bars because I tend to perform my shit live when I record, so I make loops and fuck with the mutes...speaking of....

LIVE SHIT: Of special note, this machine does something I wish every other machine I used did: Treat muting tracks as muting tracks via a mixer, not just choking off the midi data on the track. This means you can unmute any sound in the middle of it playing it sounds like you just turned on the speakers for that track, so it feels very UNsequencer like in this respect and that's a GOOD thing. Too many times I miss my unmute cue by a milisecond, so the first note of the riff is missing and that's super bad if the note is one long one playing a sample for the whole pattern! So it's nice that you can be a little off in timing and the feel of your performance is in tact, even if it's just a little sloppier sounding because your mutes/unmutes aren't tied to MIDI notes. Another really nice thing about the unit's performance features is that you can alter one track while muting/unmuting others. I used the ESX extensively for live and it was really frustrating for live play in that you could not select a track without unmuting it automatically, it required a special button to be held to select a track and have it remain silent when doing so, etc. None of that is issue on RS. You can be on one track fucking up it's sound all over the place on the knobs while changing patterns and unmuiting/muting tracks and your knobs will keep affecting the track you're on. There's actually, just like most things on the RS, multiple ways to operate track mutes/selecting too since there's actually mode on/off buttons on the bottom left side of the unit that basically set the 'rules' for how the step sequencer buttons behave...whether pressing them mutes/unmutes, plays a sound of the current instrument or simply selects the track to be actively edited by all the knobs n shit. It's confusing at first, but it does allow flexibility in how you perform your music on it. I think I mentioned this before too, but you can also reassign EVERY KNOB AND BUTTON on the unit to whatever you want. If you fuck up doing this for whatever reason, the power button will reset everything....which brings me to....

FILES: It uses SM cards. You either are okay with them or you hate them (no one loves them). Patterns save samples inside of them, which is nice. Saving a pattern is essentially saving a complete studio setup since everytime you power on the unit, it resets to factory defaults, which is a pain if you're used to just powering on your gear and the last things you worked on are still in memory. It's a minor gripe but at the same time, it's kind of nice starting with a blank canvas when you turn it on, so it can go either way. It also can save samples independent of patterns in wav format. I haven't loaded anything that I edited elsewhere, though, but I"m sure if you keep your audio within the requirements (44.1khz, 16bit or lower) theoretically it should load anything it can fit into memory.

HARDWARE: This one's a bit of a style debate for me. The RS is full capable of making intricate orchestrations of any genre of music you want without having a keyboard attached thanks to it's huge library of MIDI clips and it's super huge garage full of power toys to edit MIDI. It has shit tons of sounds, etc. so it lives up to it's workstation name. HOwever, I'm a keys player, so I've using it with a keyboard and I recommend anyone looking to get an RS hook a midi keyboard up to it because you'll instantly start getting the feel for how the RS works...attaching a keyboard, to me, is sort of like you have a porche with engine, shiny paint, spotless leather interior but no wheels...hooking up the keyboard gives the RS wheels for me. No keyboard, you can rev the engine a bit and it sounds nice, but to get a feel for the unit, you do need a keyboard in my opinion. However, knowing that if I somehow landed on a planet with no midi keyboards allowed, I could still make tunes that sounded like I did use one without much effort. The knobs all do feel good though. Much better than what I expected. The pattern buttons and drum pads are very bad, though. The pattern buttons are angled in such a way to suggest 'push this side' However, subconsciously, I"m always aiming my finger for the middle of the button, which isn't as sensitive as the raised portion, so it always comes off feeling like the buttons have issues (even though it's just a design that isn't working on me). The pads also have no give and feel like Yamaha's little table top drum pad synths from the early 90s. But, as I said, on a desert island, they'd work in a pinch for velocity on your drums. You can also use them to re-record velocity of already recorded notes too, but I haven't figured out how to set that shit up (I just use the velocity amp knob instead).

OVERALL: This is pretty much most of everything I've wanted that was missing in my setup...a mothership with just general functionality and no specialties, something that doesn't demand all of your attention but doesn't make you feel like a dipshit if you do give it all your attention. Out of all of the gear I've played, here's my breakdown in numbers for the TL:DR crowd:

SOUND: 6/10 A little bassey, takes a lot of finesse to get cleaner polished sounds out of it but it's sound library is large enough you likely will be too occupied to notice until you're at the end of your song anyway.

SAMPLING: 9/10 While it's difficult to understand how it's sampling system is set up, once you understand it's basically 3 different sampling engines that each have their own features, it becomes second nature. Plus, if you got expanded memory, you can basically use the RS as a DAW...

INSTRUMENTS: 6/10 While there's a crushingly huge variety along with lots of presets as well as a bank of nothing but synth oscillators, they all just sound...old and used. But with sampling, you can resmaple to update sounds or simply load in your own.

SEQUENCER: 10/10 Nothing beats this beats' features in hardware land. It's too fucking flexible and does too much to be anything less than as close as perfection can be. To some degree, you can even fix how you interface with it by using the knob/button reassignment tool. Holy shit, dawg. A fucking Options Menu that stretches from here to infinity. At the same time, the most used features are always the ones right on the surface.

EFFECTS: 8/10 With up to 7 simultaneous effects available and no less than 4 always possible, sound shaping isn't difficult. The downsides are you're always stuck with 1 reverb and 1 delay and your master effect is only selectable from a choice of about 12. However, all the effects sound good and if you want more shit, remember, it's a DAW with resampling, so just bounce that shit.

BUILD: 7/10 It's solid, not too heavy but it's a bit big for my tastes. If you ever used one of the larger Portastudios with shit tons of eq knobs, it's the same size as one of those, but feels sturdier than Tascam's multitrackers.

FINAL SCORE: 8/10 The only improvements I can see this thing could ever need are merely ones of convenience (USB or SD card instead of SM for one, better 'default power on' management, etc.) or updating it's sound to take advantage of new DSP and sampling techniques. Otherwise, I don't see how I'd really need anything else other than a good synth of some sort, and that's exactly what I've paired it up with. If you can find one for 300-400$, I highly suggest getting one and sticking with it if you like to do more than JUST sampling (it's overkill if that's all you enjoy doing making music...505 or ESX are still better suited to PURE focused sampling sequencing).

And that's it. I don't imagine I'd sell this unless I replaced it with something more modern of the same caliber but it's MIDI functions are definitely one thing I'd miss as I don't think any other piece of hardware can do as quickly and easily with MIDI what this machine can.

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha RS7000: First Thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 6:54 pm 
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I love my RS7000. The remix feature is fantastic (and slow) but you can also apply it to MIDI tracks as well. I will read over your review in more detail later. Glad you dig it.
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha RS7000: First Thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:11 pm 
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I bought one 6 years ago, and paid double what you did off of eBay! But, mine came with a memory card reader, a card, and a hard case to protect the unit, and the original manual.

Best way I can explain it is that if any of you ever messed with the Yamaha RM1x, this is like one on steroids and energy drinks. The internal sounds are very rompleresque, pretty much like the RM1x, but you have more effects and options which allow you to change them to your liking.

Yes, it's size is HUGE. Find a nice coffee table or empty spot in your studio, and connect a few synths or SP's around it. If you want, track down the expander unit, which allows you to get extra outputs, if you wish to process it out to external compressors, reverb units, filters, Kaoss pads, etc.

If you can, get the manual or the .pdf file, because there is a lot to learn. I had the card reader, so exchanging midi files, and samples was easy for me. Finding the cards wasn't. Honesty, this is probably what doomed the RS7k from being super unwanted in this day and age. You wonder why Yammy didn't give you a hard drive of 20gb to save and store all your samples. And the sad thing was, Akai gave you those options on MPCs, so Yammy kind of fudged that for its own demise.

I used the sampler a bit, and it wasn't too terrible. Yes, slow, but you could figure it out. I took a AL Green tune, sampled the middle, and could pitch it up so that it almost sound like a funky breakbeat house track. Chopping samples was possible to, but if you're used to how you do it on your SPs, then the way the RS7k does it might annoy you, but if you can live with its workflow, you can mangle and warble your samples in ways your SPs maybe can't.

I ran into money problems 6 weeks after I bought it, and I had to sell it. Would I want another one? Hmmmm, well, maybe, but I would want it to have the outboard option already installed, and a card reader thrown in if I could. I didn't scratch the surface of what it was capable of at the time, and since I own a few electribes, a 505, a Yamaha DX200, ST224, it would be handy to have one machine control many. But I might want a Roland MC909 just to see if I like it better.

I can promise you though, that if you're patient with it, it will feel like a missing link in your setup. But it's going to take some patience and some practice to figure what it's good and bad at.

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha RS7000: First Thoughts
PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:26 pm 
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XD to SMC adapter-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/XD-Picture-Card ... 564990aed2

I have one of these but just ordered an XD card to test.

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha RS7000: First Thoughts
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:52 pm 
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Om_Audio wrote:
XD to SMC adapter-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/XD-Picture-Card ... 564990aed2

I have one of these but just ordered an XD card to test.

C

i use something similar for my mc909, the problem is to find the right xd card for any xd reader...i was lucky, the second one was ok with my xd card

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha RS7000: First Thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:52 am 
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@Ohm, do you create any 'custom start point' files that you load up from? Or do you just start from factory default every time you power up? I was thinking about possibly creating some kind of 'personal default', but not sure what to do for it...Im' used to most of my gear remembering what I did last on it...RS7K has power-button amnesia though.

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha RS7000: First Thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:03 am 
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I always tended to load an ALL+sys file. Make one of those and you will be good to go.
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha RS7000: First Thoughts
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:54 pm 
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i'm totally new here and I'm sure you guys already know this but I just thought I would mention it:

The RS 7000 can automatically load a set up on power up if it is named correctly... "AUTOLD_1.R2A", "AUTOLD_2.R2A", "AUTOLD_3.R2A"

The "AUTOLD_1.R2A" file is loaded by default, but if you hold down the key of a different number while powering on you can load the other ones. (Then it remembers the last numbered one you entered and loads that one by default, until changed).

As I said I am sure that many of you may already know this but I didn't see it specified anywhere in the thread so I thought I'd mention it. Of course I skimmed the thread a bit in places, so maybe it was mentioned already. Anyway, just another cool feature in an already awesome device. Bought mine for about $600 (in 2016) and would do it again in a heartbeat!

Definately recommend Grid Recording mode... implemented extremely well on the RS7K!


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